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From: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
To: Scott Branden <scott.branden@broadcom.com>
Cc: Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	BCM Kernel Feedback <bcm-kernel-feedback-list@broadcom.com>
Subject: Re: 5.10 LTS Kernel: 2 or 6 years?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:29:25 +0100
Message-ID: <YA/E1bHRmZb50MlS@kroah.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ef30af4d-2081-305d-cd63-cb74da819a6d@broadcom.com>

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 11:55:11AM -0800, Scott Branden wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> The 5.10 LTS kernel being officially LTS supported for 2 years presents a problem:
> why would anyone select a 5.10 kernel with 2 year LTS when 5.4 kernel has a 6 year LTS.

Because they want to use all of the latest stuff that 5.10 provides
them.  Don't you want faster and more secure kernels for your devices?

> Yet, various unofficial reports indicate it will be supported for 6 years.

Rumors are nice, aren't they :)

>  And AOSP has already declared the use
> of 5.10 kernel in their Android S and T releases.

Publically?  Where?  And is that really the name of the new Android
releases, I thought they switched to numbers now (hence the naming of
the current android-common kernel branches, marketing is fun...)

> Is there some way we could make the LTS support more clear.
> A 2 year declaration is not LTS any more.

Not true at all, a "normal" stable kernel is dropped after the next
release happens, making their lifespan about 4 months long.  2 years is
much longer than 4 months, so it still is a "long term supported" kernel
in contrast, correct?

> If 5.10 is "actually" going to be supported for 6 years it would be quite valuable to make such a declaration.
> https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Why?  What would that change?

Ok, seriously, this happens every year, and every year we go through the
same thing, it's not like this is somehow new, right?

I want to see companies _using_ the kernel, and most importantly,
_updating_ their devices with it, to know if it is worth to keep around
for longer than 2 years.  I also, hopefully, want to see how those
companies will help me out in the testing and maintenance of that kernel
version in order to make supporting it for 6 years actually possible.

So, are you planning on using 5.10?  Will you will be willing to help
out in testing the -rc releases I make to let me know if there are any
problems, and to help in pointing out and backporting any specific
patches that your platforms need for that kernel release?

When I get this kind of promises and support from companies, then I am
glad to bump up the length of the kernel support from 2 to 6 years, and
I mark it on the web site.  Traditionally this happens in Febuary/March
once I hear from enough companies.  Can I count on your support in this
endeavor?

Also, a meta-comment.  Please reconsider using a single kernel version
for longer than 2 years on systems that you actively support and
maintain.  It's generally a bad idea unless you are stuck with millions
of out-of-tree code that something like a customer-unfriendly SoC vendor
provides.  If you are stuck in that type of situation, well they have
decided to spend extra money to keep their out-of-tree code alive, so
why are they forcing you to also spend extra money and energy?

I can go on about this topic at length if you want me to, I have lots of
examples of how to, and not to, maintain a kernel for a device for a
long period of time...

thanks,

greg k-h

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 65+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-25 19:55 Scott Branden
2021-01-26  2:50 ` Adam Borowski
2021-01-26  7:29 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman [this message]
2021-01-26 17:35   ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-26 18:30   ` Scott Branden
2021-01-26 18:51     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-01-26 20:15       ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-17  9:40       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-17 19:48         ` Scott Branden
2021-02-18  7:43           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-18 11:31             ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-18 14:15               ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-18 14:29                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-18 20:55                   ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-18 22:43                     ` Ondrej Zary
2021-02-19  8:00                       ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-19  8:30                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-18 14:33                 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-18 17:19                   ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-18 17:22                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-02-18 17:44                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-19  7:10                       ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-19  8:22                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-19 10:31                           ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-19 10:37                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-19 10:57                               ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-19 11:16                                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-19 15:23                                   ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-20 13:29                                     ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-20 16:05                                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-20 17:06                                         ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-21 11:38                                         ` Jari Ruusu
2021-02-19 16:50                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-02-18 17:16               ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-18 12:51             ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-18 16:51           ` Sasha Levin
2021-02-18 17:21             ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-18 17:53               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-18 17:57                 ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-18 18:20                 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-18 18:36                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-18 20:16                     ` Scott Branden
2021-02-18 21:00                       ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-18 22:38                         ` Scott Branden
2021-02-18 21:39                       ` Sasha Levin
2021-02-18 22:00                         ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-18 22:26                         ` Scott Branden
2021-02-19  8:25                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-19 15:05                         ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-19 15:53                           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-19 17:44                             ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-22 14:17                               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-18 17:42           ` Florian Fainelli
2021-02-18 18:13             ` Willy Tarreau
2021-02-18 10:04         ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-19  8:54   ` Hanjun Guo
2021-02-19  9:08     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-20  7:02       ` Hanjun Guo
2021-02-20  9:53         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-02-23  2:14           ` Hanjun Guo
2021-02-19 14:45     ` Nikolai Kondrashov
2021-02-26  8:03       ` Hanjun Guo
2021-02-26 11:21         ` Nikolai Kondrashov
2021-02-22 14:00   ` Nishanth Aravamudan
2021-02-22 14:24     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman

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