From: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu> To: "Maciej W. Rozycki" <macro@orcam.me.uk> Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>, Tom Stellard <tstellar@redhat.com>, Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@google.com>, Masahiro Yamada <masahiroy@kernel.org>, Nathan Chancellor <nathan@kernel.org>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, clang-built-linux <clang-built-linux@googlegroups.com>, Fangrui Song <maskray@google.com>, Serge Guelton <sguelton@redhat.com>, Sylvestre Ledru <sylvestre@mozilla.com> Subject: Re: Very slow clang kernel config .. Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 10:54:35 -0400 [thread overview] Message-ID: <YJAOq9CD72EWaF8P@mit.edu> (raw) In-Reply-To: <YJAK1C1uLknYGYrH@mit.edu> On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 10:38:12AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 03:03:31AM +0200, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > > > > People went through great efforts to support shared libraries, sacrificed > > performance for it even back then when the computing power was much lower > > than nowadays. > > That was because memory was *incredibly* restrictive in those days. > My first Linux server had one gig of memory, and so shared libraries > provided a huge performance boost --- because otherwise systems would > be swapping or paging their brains out. Correction. My bad, my first Linux machine had 16 megs of memory.... - Ted > > However, these days, many if not most developers aren't capable of the > discpline needed to maintained the ABI stability needed for shared > libraries to work well. I can think several packages where if you > used shared libraries, the major version number would need to be > bumped at every releases, because people don't know how to spell ABI, > never mind be able to *preserve* ABI. Heck, it's the same reason that > we don't promise kernel ABI compatibility for kernel modules! > > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/process/stable-api-nonsense.rst > > And in the case of Debian, use of shared libraries means that every > time you release a new version of, say, f2fs-tools, things can get > stalled for months or in one case, over a year, due to the new package > review process (a shared library version bump means a new binary > package, and that in turn requires a full review of the entire source > package for GPL compliance from scratch, and f2fs-tools has bumped > their shared library major version *every* *single* *release*) --- > during which time, security bug fixes were being held up due to the > new package review tarpit. > > If people could actually guarantee stable ABI's, then shared libraries > might make sense. E2fsprogs hasn't had a major version bump in shared > libraries for over a decade (although some developers whine and > complain about how I reject function signature changes in the > libext2fs library to provide that ABI stability). But how many > userspace packages can make that claim? > > - Ted
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-05-03 14:54 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-04-29 21:53 Linus Torvalds 2021-04-30 0:19 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-04-30 2:22 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-05-01 0:19 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-05-01 0:23 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-05-01 0:25 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-05-01 0:40 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-05-01 1:22 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-05-01 1:48 ` Nick Desaulniers 2021-05-01 2:16 ` Fangrui Song 2021-05-01 3:32 ` Tom Stellard 2021-05-01 16:32 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-05-01 19:57 ` Serge Guelton 2021-05-01 22:39 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-05-01 23:55 ` Fangrui Song 2021-05-01 21:58 ` David Laight 2021-05-02 9:31 ` Adrian Bunk 2021-05-02 11:35 ` David Laight 2021-05-02 16:12 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-05-02 16:45 ` Adrian Bunk 2021-05-02 16:49 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-05-02 17:55 ` Adrian Bunk 2021-05-02 17:59 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-05-02 21:48 ` Adrian Bunk 2021-05-04 22:02 ` Miguel Ojeda 2021-05-05 0:58 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-05-05 17:21 ` Miguel Ojeda 2021-05-04 21:32 ` Miguel Ojeda 2021-05-05 11:05 ` David Laight 2021-05-05 13:53 ` Miguel Ojeda 2021-05-05 14:13 ` David Laight 2021-05-05 16:06 ` Miguel Ojeda 2021-05-05 16:25 ` David Laight 2021-05-05 17:55 ` Miguel Ojeda 2021-05-03 1:03 ` Maciej W. Rozycki 2021-05-03 14:38 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-05-03 14:54 ` Theodore Ts'o [this message] 2021-05-03 17:14 ` Maciej W. Rozycki 2021-05-03 16:09 ` David Laight 2021-05-04 23:04 ` Greg Stark 2021-05-05 0:55 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-05-01 23:37 ` Mike Hommey 2021-05-02 5:19 ` Dan Aloni 2021-05-03 16:48 ` Tom Stellard 2021-05-03 19:00 ` Fangrui Song 2021-04-30 0:52 ` Nathan Chancellor 2021-04-30 2:21 ` Nick Desaulniers
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