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From: Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>
To: "gregkh@linuxfoundation.org" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH] kernel/module: add documentation for try_module_get()
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 13:54:21 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YQByfUaDaXCUqrlo@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YQBSutZfhqfTzKQa@kroah.com>

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 08:38:50PM +0200, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 11:18:03AM -0700, Luis Chamberlain wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 07:46:34PM +0200, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 10:30:36AM -0700, Luis Chamberlain wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 12:15:10PM +0000, David Laight wrote:
> > > > > From: Luis Chamberlain
> > > > > > Sent: 22 July 2021 23:19
> > > > The sysfs store / read file operations are gauranteed to exist using
> > > > kernfs's active reference (see kernfs_active()).
> > > 
> > > But that has nothing to do with module reference counts.  kernfs knows
> > > nothing about modules.
> > 
> > Yes but we are talking about sysfs files which the module creates. So
> > but inference again, an active reference protects a module.
> 
> What active reference? 

kernfs_active()

> > > > In fact, this documentation patch was motivated by my own solution to a
> > > > possible deadlock when sysfs is used. Using the same example above, if
> > > > the same sysfs file uses *any* lock, which is *also* used on the exit
> > > > routine, you can easily trigger a deadlock. This can happen for example
> > > > by the lock being obtained by the removal routine, then the sysfs file
> > > > gets called, waits for the lock to complete, then the module's exit
> > > > routine starts cleaning up and removing sysfs files, but we won't be
> > > > able to remove the sysfs file (due to kernefs active reference) until
> > > > the sysfs file complets, but it cannot complete because the lock is
> > > > already held.
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, this is a generic problem. Yes I have proof [0]. Yes, a generic
> > > > solution has been proposed [1], and because Greg is not convinced and I
> > > > need to move on with life, I am suggesting a temporary driver specific
> > > > solution (to which Greg is still NACK'ing, without even proposing any
> > > > alternatives) [2].
> > > > 
> > > > [0] https://lkml.kernel.org/r/20210703004632.621662-5-mcgrof@kernel.org
> > > > [1] https://lkml.kernel.org/r/20210401235925.GR4332@42.do-not-panic.com 
> > > > [2] https://lkml.kernel.org/r/20210723174919.ka3tzyre432uilf7@garbanzo
> > > 
> > > My problem with your proposed solution is that it is still racy, you can
> > > not increment your own module reference count from 0 -> 1 and expect it
> > > to work properly.  You need external code to do that somewhere.
> > 
> > You are not providing *any* proof for this.
> 
> I did provide proof of that.  Here it is again.

<irrelevant example> 

sysfs files are safe to use try_module_get() because once they are
active a removal of the file cannot happen, and so removal will wait.

> > And even so, I believe I have clarified as best as possible how a
> > kernfs active reference implicitly protects the module when we are
> > talking about sysfs files.
> 
> I do not see any link anywhere between kernfs and modules, what am I
> missing?  Pointers to lines of code would be appreciated.

I provided a selftests with error injections inserted all over
kernfs_fop_write_iter(). Please study that and my error injection
code.

> > > Now trying to tie sysfs files to the modules that own them would be
> > > nice, but as we have seen, that way lies way too many kernel changes,
> > > right?
> > 
> > It's not a one-liner fix. Yes.
> > 
> > > Hm, maybe.  Did we think about this from the kobj_attribute level?  If
> > > we use the "wrapper" logic there and the use of the macros we already
> > > have for attributes, we might be able to get the module pointer directly
> > > "for free".
> > >
> > > Did we try that?
> > 
> > That was my hope. I tried that first. Last year in November I determined
> > kernfs is kobject stupid. But more importantly *neither* are struct device
> > specific, so neither of them have semantics for modules or even devices.
> 
> But what about at the kobject level?

kernfs is kobject stupid.

> I will try to look at that this week, can't promise anything...

  Luis

  reply	other threads:[~2021-07-27 20:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-22 22:19 Luis Chamberlain
2021-07-22 22:39 ` Stephen Hemminger
2021-07-23  2:33 ` Bart Van Assche
2021-07-24 12:15 ` David Laight
2021-07-27 17:30   ` Luis Chamberlain
2021-07-27 17:46     ` gregkh
2021-07-27 18:18       ` Luis Chamberlain
2021-07-27 18:38         ` gregkh
2021-07-27 20:54           ` Luis Chamberlain [this message]
2021-07-28  8:28             ` David Laight
2021-07-28 13:49               ` Luis Chamberlain

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