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From: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Memory folios for v5.15
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:44:48 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YSVMMMrzqxyFjHlw@mit.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YSVHI9iaamxTGmI7@casper.infradead.org>

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 08:23:15PM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > So when you mention "slab" as a name example, that's not the argument
> > you think it is. That's a real honest-to-goodness operating system
> > convention name that doesn't exactly predate Linux, but is most
> > certainly not new.
> 
> Sure, but at the time Jeff Bonwick chose it, it had no meaning in
> computer science or operating system design.

I think the big difference is that "slab" is mostly used as an
internal name.  In Linux it doesn't even leak out to the users, since
we use kmem_cache_{create,alloc,free,destroy}().  So the "slab"
doesn't even show up in the API.

The problem is whether we use struct head_page, or folio, or mempages,
we're going to be subsystem users' faces.  And people who are using it
every day will eventually get used to anything, whether it's "folio"
or "xmoqax", we sould give a thought to newcomers to Linux file system
code.  If they see things like "read_folio()", they are going to be
far more confused than "read_pages()" or "read_mempages()".

Sure, one impenetrable code word isn't that bad.  But this is a case
of a death by a thousand cuts.  At $WORK, one time we had welcomed an
intern to our group, I had to stop everyone each time that they used
an acronym, or a codeword, and asked them to define the term.

It was really illuminating what an insider takes for granted, but when
it's one cutsy codeword after another, with three or more such
codewords in a sentence, it's *really* a less-than-great initial
experience for a newcomer.

So if someone sees "kmem_cache_alloc()", they can probably make a
guess what it means, and it's memorable once they learn it.
Similarly, something like "head_page", or "mempages" is going to a bit
more obvious to a kernel newbie.  So if we can make a tiny gesture
towards comprehensibility, it would be good to do so while it's still
easier to change the name.

Cheers,

					- Ted

  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-24 19:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-23 19:01 [GIT PULL] Memory folios for v5.15 Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-23 21:26 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-23 22:06   ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24  2:20     ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 13:04     ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-23 22:15   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 18:32     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-24 18:59       ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-25  6:39         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-24 19:44       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-25 15:13         ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-26  0:45           ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-08-27 14:07             ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-27 18:44               ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-27 21:41                 ` Dan Williams
2021-08-27 21:49                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-30 17:32                 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-30 18:22                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-30 20:27                     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-30 21:38                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-31 17:40                         ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-09-01 17:43                         ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-02 15:13                           ` Zi Yan
2021-09-06 14:00                             ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-08-31 18:50                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2021-08-26  8:58         ` David Howells
2021-08-27 10:03           ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-27 12:05             ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-27 10:49           ` David Howells
2021-08-24 15:54   ` David Howells
2021-08-24 17:56     ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 18:26       ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 18:29         ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:26           ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-08-24 19:34           ` David Howells
2021-08-24 20:02             ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-08-24 21:32             ` David Howells
2021-08-25 12:08               ` Jeff Layton
2021-08-24 19:01         ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 19:11           ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:23             ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 19:44               ` Theodore Ts'o [this message]
2021-08-24 20:00                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-25  6:32                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-25  9:01                   ` Rasmus Villemoes
2021-08-26  6:32                     ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-25 12:03                   ` Jeff Layton
2021-08-26  0:59                     ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-08-26  4:02                   ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-09-01 12:58                 ` Mike Rapoport
2021-08-24 19:35             ` David Howells
2021-08-24 20:35               ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-08-24 20:40                 ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-08-24 19:11         ` David Howells
2021-08-24 19:25           ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:38             ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:48               ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-26 17:18                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 19:59             ` David Howells
2021-10-05 13:52   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-05 17:29     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-05 17:32       ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-05 18:30       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-05 19:56         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2021-08-28  3:29 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-09 12:43 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-09-09 13:56   ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-09-09 18:16     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-09 18:44       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-09 22:03         ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-09 22:48           ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-09 19:17     ` John Hubbard
2021-09-09 19:23       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-10 20:16 ` Folio discussion recap Kent Overstreet
2021-09-11  1:23   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-13 11:32     ` Michal Hocko
2021-09-13 18:12       ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-15 15:40   ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-15 17:55     ` Damian Tometzki
2021-09-16  2:58     ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-09-16 16:54       ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-17  5:24         ` Dave Chinner
2021-09-17  7:18           ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-09-17 16:31           ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-17 20:57             ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-17 21:17               ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-17 22:02                 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-17 22:21                   ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-17 23:15               ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-20 10:03                 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-17 21:13             ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-17 22:25               ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 23:35                 ` Josef Bacik
2021-09-18  1:04             ` Dave Chinner
2021-09-18  4:51               ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-20  1:04                 ` Dave Chinner
2021-09-16 21:58       ` David Howells
2021-09-20  2:17   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-21 19:47     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-21 20:38       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-21 21:11         ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-21 21:22           ` Folios for 5.15 request - Was: re: Folio discussion recap - Kent Overstreet
2021-09-22 15:08             ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-22 15:46               ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-22 16:26                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-22 16:56                   ` Chris Mason
2021-09-22 19:54                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-22 20:15                       ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-22 20:21                       ` Linus Torvalds
2021-09-23  5:42               ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-23 18:00                 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-23 19:31                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-23 20:20                   ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-16  3:28               ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-18 16:47                 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-18 18:12                   ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-18 20:45                     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-19 16:11                       ` Splitting struct page into multiple types " Kent Overstreet
2021-10-19 17:06                         ` Gao Xiang
2021-10-19 17:34                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-19 17:54                             ` Gao Xiang
2021-10-20 17:46                               ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-19 17:37                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2021-10-19 21:14                       ` David Howells
2021-10-18 18:28                   ` Folios for 5.15 request " Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-18 21:56                     ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-18 23:16                       ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-10-19 15:16                         ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-20  3:19                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-20  7:50                           ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-20 17:26                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-20 18:04                               ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21  6:51                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21  7:21                                   ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 12:03                                     ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-21 12:35                                       ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 12:38                                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 13:00                                           ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 12:41                                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-20 17:39                           ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-21 21:37                             ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-22  1:52                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-22  7:59                                 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-22 13:01                                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-22 14:40                                     ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-23  2:22                                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-23  5:02                                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-23  9:58                                         ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-23 16:00                                           ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-23 21:41                                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-23 22:23                                               ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-25 15:35                                 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-25 15:52                                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-25 16:05                                   ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-16 19:07               ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-18 17:25                 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-21 22:18           ` Folio discussion recap Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-23  0:45             ` Ira Weiny
2021-09-23  3:41               ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-23 22:12                 ` Ira Weiny
2021-09-29 15:24                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-21 21:59         ` Johannes Weiner

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