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From: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
To: Nicolas Saenz Julienne <nsaenz@amazon.com>
Cc: kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-hyperv@vger.kernel.org, pbonzini@redhat.com,
	vkuznets@redhat.com, anelkz@amazon.com, graf@amazon.com,
	dwmw@amazon.co.uk, jgowans@amazon.com, corbert@lwn.net,
	kys@microsoft.com, haiyangz@microsoft.com, decui@microsoft.com,
	x86@kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/33] KVM: x86: hyperv: Introduce VSM support
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 10:33:11 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZUvUZytj1AabvvrB@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZUu9lwJHasi2vKGg@google.com>

On Wed, Nov 08, 2023, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 08, 2023, Nicolas Saenz Julienne wrote:
> > This RFC series introduces the necessary infrastructure to emulate VSM
> > enabled guests. It is a snapshot of the progress we made so far, and its
> > main goal is to gather design feedback.
> 
> Heh, then please provide an overview of the design, and ideally context and/or
> justification for various design decisions.  It doesn't need to be a proper design
> doc, and you can certainly point at other documentation for explaining VSM/VTLs,
> but a few paragraphs and/or verbose bullet points would go a long way.
> 
> The documentation in patch 33 provides an explanation of VSM itself, and a little
> insight into how userspace can utilize the KVM implementation.  But the documentation
> provides no explanation of the mechanics that KVM *developers* care about, e.g.
> the use of memory attributes, how memory attributes are enforced, whether or not
> an in-kernel local APIC is required, etc.
> 
> Nor does the documentation explain *why*, e.g. why store a separate set of memory
> attributes per VTL "device", which by the by is broken and unnecessary.

After speed reading the series..  An overview of the design, why you made certain
choices, and the tradeoffs between various options is definitely needed.

A few questions off the top of my head:

 - What is the split between userspace and KVM?  How did you arrive at that split?

 - How much *needs* to be in KVM?  I.e. how much can be pushed to userspace while
   maintaininly good performance?
   
 - Why not make VTLs a first-party concept in KVM?  E.g. rather than bury info
   in a VTL device and APIC ID groups, why not modify "struct kvm" to support
   replicating state that needs to be tracked per-VTL?  Because of how memory
   attributes affect hugepages, duplicating *memslots* might actually be easier
   than teaching memslots to be VTL-aware.

 - Is "struct kvm_vcpu" the best representation of an execution context (if I'm
   getting the terminology right)?  E.g. if 90% of the state is guaranteed to be
   identical for a given vCPU across execution contexts, then modeling that with
   separate kvm_vcpu structures is very inefficient.  I highly doubt it's 90%,
   but it might be quite high depending on how much the TFLS restricts the state
   of the vCPU, e.g. if it's 64-bit only.

The more info you can provide before LPC, the better, e.g. so that we can spend
time discussing options instead of you getting peppered with questions about the
requirements and whatnot.

  reply	other threads:[~2023-11-08 18:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-11-08 11:17 [RFC 0/33] KVM: x86: hyperv: Introduce VSM support Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 01/33] KVM: x86: Decouple lapic.h from hyperv.h Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 16:11   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 02/33] KVM: x86: Introduce KVM_CAP_APIC_ID_GROUPS Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:11   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 17:47   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-10 18:46     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  6:56   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-12-01 15:25     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 03/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce XMM output support Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:44   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 12:11     ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2023-11-08 12:16       ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-28  6:57         ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 04/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Move hypercall page handling into separate function Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:01   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 05/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce VTL call/return prologues in hypercall page Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:53   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 14:10     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:08   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-28 16:33     ` Sean Christopherson
2023-12-01 16:19     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-12-01 16:32       ` Sean Christopherson
2023-12-01 16:50         ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-12-01 17:47           ` Sean Christopherson
2023-12-01 18:15             ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-12-05 19:21               ` Sean Christopherson
2023-12-05 20:04                 ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-12-06  0:07                   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-12-06 16:19                     ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 06/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce VTL awareness to Hyper-V's PV-IPIs Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:14   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-12-01 16:31     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-12-05 15:02       ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 07/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce KVM_CAP_HYPERV_VSM Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:16   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 08/33] KVM: x86: Don't use hv_timer if CAP_HYPERV_VSM enabled Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:21   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 09/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce per-VTL vcpu helpers Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:21   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 14:04     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:25   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 10/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce KVM_HV_GET_VSM_STATE Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:26   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 11/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Handle GET/SET_VP_REGISTER hcall in user-space Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:14   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-28  7:26     ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 12/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Handle VSM hcalls " Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:28   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 13/33] KVM: Allow polling vCPUs for events Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:30   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 14/33] KVM: x86: Add VTL to the MMU role Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 17:26   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-10 18:52     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:34       ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 15/33] KVM: x86/mmu: Introduce infrastructure to handle non-executable faults Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:34   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 16/33] KVM: x86/mmu: Expose R/W/X flags during memory fault exits Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:36   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-28 16:31     ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 17/33] KVM: x86/mmu: Allow setting memory attributes if VSM enabled Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:39   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 18/33] KVM: x86: Decouple kvm_get_memory_attributes() from struct kvm's mem_attr_array Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 16:59   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-28  7:41   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 19/33] KVM: x86: Decouple kvm_range_has_memory_attributes() " Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:42   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 20/33] KVM: x86/mmu: Decouple hugepage_has_attrs() " Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:43   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 21/33] KVM: Pass memory attribute array as a MMU notifier argument Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 17:08   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 22/33] KVM: Decouple kvm_ioctl_set_mem_attributes() from kvm's mem_attr_array Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 23/33] KVM: Expose memory attribute helper functions unanimously Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 24/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce KVM VTL device Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 25/33] KVM: Introduce a set of new memory attributes Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:30   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 16:43     ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 11:17 ` [RFC 26/33] KVM: x86: hyper-vsm: Allow setting per-VTL " Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:44   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 27/33] KVM: x86/mmu/hyper-v: Validate memory faults against per-VTL memprots Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:46   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 28/33] x86/hyper-v: Introduce memory intercept message structure Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  7:53   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 29/33] KVM: VMX: Save instruction length on EPT violation Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:40   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 16:15     ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 17:11       ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 17:20   ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 17:27     ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 18:19       ` Jim Mattson
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 30/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Introduce KVM_REQ_HV_INJECT_INTERCEPT request Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:45   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 13:38     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  8:19       ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 31/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Inject intercept on VTL memory protection fault Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 32/33] KVM: x86: hyper-v: Implement HVCALL_TRANSLATE_VIRTUAL_ADDRESS Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 12:49   ` Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 13:44     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 11:18 ` [RFC 33/33] Documentation: KVM: Introduce "Emulating Hyper-V VSM with KVM" Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-28  8:19   ` Maxim Levitsky
2023-11-08 11:40 ` [RFC 0/33] KVM: x86: hyperv: Introduce VSM support Alexander Graf
2023-11-08 14:41   ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-08 16:55 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-08 18:33   ` Sean Christopherson [this message]
2023-11-10 17:56     ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-10 19:32       ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-11 11:55         ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2023-11-10 19:04   ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne

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