From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ed1-f44.google.com (mail-ed1-f44.google.com [209.85.208.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ED3D135A4C for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2024 17:36:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.44 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1709746576; cv=none; b=Or4IvHCYwXgU/fWQT9xvbbS4EOSTYvfGABDvGJ2Oksdp6EYjIleDipC6QoWoeQs76AV+PcBJKJFVgXlWIwsT7EIszR/IsDmqPZZ2xIwK5Y7xtDGxJa/40dFrDWQNaNdablyAGW+Igx1nCN1yT4LQGoX6eqpGuDZTfqPfOpfc+Pk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1709746576; c=relaxed/simple; bh=cUyDcNC/LTkBVNTzTcTw3YOnUioZAJDXkPPFotLuCH0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=AW5nwhG38oQxU23dzPnnQa6RRy/YpWWED8Cj2F7LPY41BDOFrolu1ucT0ItLZm1ccNeJgHNhOfNe5oAi/1FeR3henQY8gL5dXUC+uMAHA9BEZbEbQN1shiMIkCRni8iJeMJZDcUJyaHv6VBz9Gb61ILAR9EoC+9OTlTyr783RDc= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=Wz/MBBNa; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.44 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="Wz/MBBNa" Received: by mail-ed1-f44.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-56781070f38so1965191a12.0 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2024 09:36:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709746573; x=1710351373; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Q88pdzkeevTU/Ovl2T1JSrp/SxlpWNguLRggqavLH88=; b=Wz/MBBNaNTY85MfOa80MQOV/lLx3PJ6OOnQz8M3/g/dPJlzuU50MlQe8Tr/w1x7xSp PprNrNk8p8j3ILI3qNIEhrWa80AripKRMJqiYlWG5+4znY9SS+jAv6qhJCT7boS9LZjk dk/yBaOdXkTkmwv3R29XBuOH9Vyu7HDtwGLtKqFBMLnh+VH6NCPBG2Rhp0K5xQZP3Qvm 1NjU0NvB1bVQdWtvji/DMUO1+0wcXVfUg/8dzkfTOVMJLcVtCASGKDYck8WBcSPFiQhP xHPt5lQyr5qyNwf0UsCEm9wAK5wbiawkOqmvnJg0rf6MlAlyuGtgR3bNT4EqVzQrAtAp fKEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709746573; x=1710351373; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Q88pdzkeevTU/Ovl2T1JSrp/SxlpWNguLRggqavLH88=; b=TTavBEs9gvSGtUXDPbGfr4hE6sZdpCPK7RKAkxn5NUeHNTvNi4YD+s0qgqqIXi5WmY kOROSSJMDudy+oFUeAKIsAEy5EfbVHgWjvM3sj5Is7sjJpByv/zWNYXvNxqa8sL3aJLg 643mfS9VxiZk18BjFZGFWyoOa/uk+NgW1B2o+7TWiINU+SSey1TZR3xn/+5IAX2KUC5J Gj6xJmrEJ1h+OQFyaOpI5iQqHSv9oE7iGF3UkOM4rEzbWhapRsRK78X8TFoIn9HFMsOY VF1xDPcDZMnZVbjtsewS/yRm/g5tY0uxlltK/pJ+9zUVclPL1lpHRm8ajvS8ZKYviZ4G SjVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwmjRzgxnvmGEXNuED0cuk/eEynXrzD447Ys2ovvxwuVQxVzfJv ZYq7+YclVAkg7AcTXRZSrlp2/2g8VMSStiE21rXOP43h41fDnPPG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG5XlKHvUi+RmQJQVL7A7olBfvW+6kABQO3o/thrMI8PXTTffkoH5uLonpIwQ4w0Hrvhu2+2w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:d287:b0:a3f:50f0:7a0a with SMTP id ay7-20020a170906d28700b00a3f50f07a0amr5938498ejb.20.1709746573281; Wed, 06 Mar 2024 09:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from andrea ([31.189.122.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id um15-20020a170906cf8f00b00a443e6f9403sm7368635ejb.54.2024.03.06.09.36.12 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 06 Mar 2024 09:36:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 18:36:09 +0100 From: Andrea Parri To: Kenneth-Lee-2012@foxmail.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, stern@rowland.harvard.edu, paulmck@kernel.org Subject: Re: Question about PB rule of LKMM Message-ID: References: Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: > > In this sense, the propagation rule (like other "acyclicity"-constraints of > > the LKMM) expresses "temporal ordering", and any pb-link is (by definition) > > an "execute-before"-link. The file explanation.txt can provide additional > > context/information, based on the (informal) operational model described in > > that file, about this matter. > > So it is just a rule in the sence of mathematics? I think it would be better > if there were some explaination in the explaination file. It is > descripted in nature language, the reader might not notify it is just a > mathematics rule. And you cannot say an action executes before another > because they are in the pb link. It becomes a cycling in logic... I think you're on to something, explaining mathematical axioms or rules has never been an easy task AFAIU. ;-) (and that's why feedback is welcome) The remark could be to continue to consider such rules "generalizations" of properties met by several hardware models or other specific contexts, rather than (mere) logically-derived facts. Andrea