From: Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org>
To: Ondrej Zary <linux@rainbow-software.org>
Cc: Stephen Rothwell <sfr@canb.auug.org.au>,
linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] APM: delete APM in Linux-2.6.40
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:09:46 -0400 (EDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1103260103250.28928@x980> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201103250907.16337.linux@rainbow-software.org>
> > > Please don't turn Linux into second Windows.
> >
> > No worry there.
> >
> > I mention Microsoft not to advocate that Linux be Windows,
> > but to point out that this (hardware/firmware) ship sank 5 years
> > ago and Linux is still on the boat. MS was able to delete
> > APM support in 2006 from their source tree, yet we still carry it.
>
> And we also support ISA cards (network/sound/whatever). That's why many people
> (including me) like and use Linux. Take any old machine that has enough power
> to do the job you want and install Linux - e.g. get a Pentium box, install
> Debian and you have a mail server (and if you need to power it down, you need
> APM too). It's not possible with any other OS (well, maybe *BSD but Linux has
> more drivers).
>
> If we remove support for older HW, Linux will never get a decent desktop
> market share. The common use case is "new Windows will not run (or run slow)
> on that (old) box, let's try Linux".
Supporting APM is not a path to increased desktop market share.
Indeed, one could easily argue it would be the opposite.
> > > If you don't want APM in the
> > > kernel, just don't compile it. There are many people using older systems
> > > with APM - and most of them wouldn't oppose to this removal as they don't
> > > even know about it.
> >
> > They can still run old Linux on an old APM-only laptop --
> > just like they can still run Windows 3.1 or Windows XP if they want to.
> >
> > What we'd be taking away is their ability to run the latest
> > Linux kernel on that laptop.
>
> And that's bad. With Linux philosophy, you need new kernel to get new HW
> support. So if you have an APM-only laptop and would want to use a new USB
> device, you're out of luck. What to do then? Delete Linux and install Windows
> XP?
>
> > The issue at hand is people (like me) who have to maintain
> > the latest Linux source code. In sort, I don't want to
> > write, debug, and test a cpuidle driver for an apm-only laptop
> > when I could be spending effort on code that people will
> > actually run.
>
> So don't do it then. If APM works now, keep it as is. Just like hgafb (HGA
> hardware is from 1984).
Speaking for the only old system I have with APM support,
today's kernel already doesn't boot on it in APM mode.
(it boots fine in ACPI mode, though as you mentioned,
X already dropped support for its decade-old graphics controller)
cheers,
-Len
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-03-26 5:10 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <alpine.LFD.2.02.1103232321070.3848@x980>
[not found] ` <20110324154505.934a56a0.sfr@canb.auug.org.au>
2011-03-24 7:39 ` [PATCH] APM: delete APM in Linux-2.6.40 Len Brown
2011-03-24 8:16 ` [PATCH] x86 APM: delete Linux kernel APM support Len Brown
2011-03-24 8:31 ` [PATCH] x86 APM: delete Linux kernel APM support (v2) Len Brown
2011-03-24 16:01 ` Andi Kleen
2011-03-24 8:39 ` [PATCH] x86 APM: delete Linux kernel APM support Ingo Molnar
2011-03-24 23:49 ` Len Brown
2011-03-25 11:30 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-03-25 12:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-03-25 12:41 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-03-25 22:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2011-03-26 4:35 ` Len Brown
2011-04-08 6:25 ` Pavel Machek
2011-04-08 20:55 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-04-11 13:05 ` Pavel Machek
2011-04-11 18:19 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-04-13 13:30 ` Pavel Machek
2011-03-26 5:01 ` Len Brown
2011-03-26 9:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-03-27 21:40 ` Ondrej Zary
2011-03-28 4:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-03-28 5:43 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-03-28 12:57 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-03-28 5:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-03-25 15:41 ` Calvin Walton
2011-03-24 8:18 ` [PATCH] APM: delete APM in Linux-2.6.40 Stephen Rothwell
2011-03-24 8:38 ` Alexander Stein
2011-03-24 10:21 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2011-03-24 23:05 ` Len Brown
2011-03-25 1:07 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2011-03-25 1:34 ` Len Brown
2011-04-04 16:44 ` Pavel Machek
2011-04-04 20:18 ` Len Brown
2011-03-24 12:15 ` Ondrej Zary
2011-03-24 23:29 ` Len Brown
2011-03-25 8:07 ` Ondrej Zary
2011-03-26 5:09 ` Len Brown [this message]
2011-04-02 21:40 ` Yuhong Bao
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