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From: Jesper Juhl <jj@chaosbits.net>
To: Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ray Lee <ray-lk@madrabbit.org>, Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>, Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Markus Trippelsdorf <markus@trippelsdorf.de>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4] sched: automated per session task groups
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 00:05:17 +0100 (CET)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1012060001520.16078@swampdragon.chaosbits.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1012052348400.16078@swampdragon.chaosbits.net>

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010, Jesper Juhl wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Dec 2010, Colin Walters wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Linus Torvalds
> > <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > The semantics of "nice" are not - and have never been - to put things
> > > into process scheduling groups of their own.
> > 
> > Again, I obviously understand that - the point is to explore the space
> > of changes here and consider what would (and wouldn't) break.  And
> > actually, what would improve.
> > 
> > > This is very much documented. People rely on it.
> > 
> > Well, we established my Fedora 14 system doesn't.  You said "no one"
> > uses "nice" interactively.  So...that leaves - who?  If you were
> > saying to me something like "I know Yahoo has some code in their data
> > centers which uses a range of nice values; if we made this change, all
> > of a sudden they'd get more CPU contention..."  Or like, "I'm pretty
> > sure Maemo uses very low nice values for some UI code".  But you so
> > far haven't really done that, it's just been (mostly)
> > assertions/handwaving.  Now you obviously have a lot more experience
> > that gives those assertions and handwaving a lot of credibility - but
> > all we need is one concrete example to shut me up =)
> > 
> [...]
> 
> I'll give you two re-world examples from two (closed source, but 
> still) apps we develop at my current employer.
> 
> The first one is a server/network monitoring app where there are lots of 
> child processes devoted to performing checks, storing data, displaying 
> results etc. Most of these processes just run at the default nice level. 
> One of the processes sometimes has a need for a cryptographic key pair and 
> it can generate this when it needs it, but it's better if one is reaily 
> available, so we have a seperate child process running that maintains a 
> small pool of new key pairs - this process runs at a high nice level since 
> it should not take CPU time away from the rest of the processes (it's not 
> important, it's just a small optimization), the need for key pairs comes 
> at large intervals, so the pool will almost never be depleted even if 
> this process doesn't get very much CPU time for a long time and besides, 
> if the pool ever gets depleted its no disaster since the consumer will 
> then just generate a key pair when needed and burn the required CPU.
> 
> The second is a backup aplication where one child process is in charge of 
> doing background disk scanning, compression and encryption. This process 
> is not interactive, it must result in minimal interference with whatever 
> the user is currently using the machine for as his primary task and 
> time-to-completion is not really that important. So, this process runs at 
> a rather high nice level to avoid stealing CPU from the users primary 
> task(s).
> 

Ohh and a third example. On my home laptop I got sufficiently annoyed with 
'updatedb' starting up from cron while I was in the middle of something 
so that cron job now runs updatedb with 'nice 19' and also uses ionice so 
it runs at the 'best effort' class and with priority 7 (lowest).


-- 
Jesper Juhl <jj@chaosbits.net>            http://www.chaosbits.net/
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please.


  reply	other threads:[~2010-12-05 23:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 323+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-10-19  9:16 [RFC/RFT PATCH] sched: automated per tty task groups Mike Galbraith
2010-10-19  9:26 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-10-19  9:39   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-19  9:43     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-10-19  9:46       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-21  7:55       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-21 10:28         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-10-19  9:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-10-19  9:42   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-19 11:29 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-19 11:56   ` Ingo Molnar
2010-10-19 13:12     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-19 15:28   ` Linus Torvalds
2010-10-19 18:13     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-19 18:53       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-20  2:56         ` Ingo Molnar
2010-10-21  8:11           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-21  8:31             ` Ingo Molnar
2010-10-21  8:39               ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-21  8:48             ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-10-21  8:52               ` Mike Galbraith
     [not found]                 ` <20101021115723.GA1587@arch.trippelsdorf.de>
2010-10-21 16:22                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2010-10-21 10:51             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2010-10-21 11:25               ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-10-21 16:29                 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-10-21 19:11                   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-26  7:07                   ` [RFC/RFT PATCH v3] " Mike Galbraith
2010-10-26  7:29                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-26 15:47                       ` Linus Torvalds
2010-10-27  1:58                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-11 15:26                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-11 18:04                           ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-11 18:34                           ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-11 19:08                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-11 19:37                               ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-11 20:29                                 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-11 19:15                           ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-11 19:35                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-11 19:38                               ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-11 19:58                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-11 20:27                           ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-11 22:20                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-12 18:12                               ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-13 11:42                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-14 17:19                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-14 17:49                                     ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-14 18:10                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-14 19:28                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-14 20:20                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-14 20:27                                             ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-14 20:48                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-14 23:43                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15  0:15                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-15  0:26                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-15  1:13                                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15  3:12                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-15 14:00                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15  8:57                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-15 11:32                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15 11:46                                                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15 12:57                                                               ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-15 21:25                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15 22:48                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16  1:56                                                                   ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-16  2:18                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-17  8:06                                                                       ` Balbir Singh
2010-11-16 14:02                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 14:11                                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 14:47                                                                         ` Dhaval Giani
2010-11-16 17:03                                                                           ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 17:11                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 18:16                                                                               ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 18:21                                                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 18:33                                                                                   ` Paul Menage
2010-11-16 18:55                                                                                     ` david
2010-11-16 18:59                                                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 19:09                                                                                         ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-16 19:13                                                                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 19:22                                                                                             ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-16 19:25                                                                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 19:40                                                                                                 ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-16 19:43                                                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 19:49                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 19:35                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 20:03                                                                                   ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 20:12                                                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 18:49                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 19:03                                                                                   ` Pekka Enberg
2010-11-16 20:21                                                                                     ` Kay Sievers
2010-11-16 20:35                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 20:31                                                                                     ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17 13:21                                                                                       ` Stephen Clark
2010-11-16 19:08                                                                                   ` david
2010-11-16 20:33                                                                                     ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 20:38                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 21:14                                                                                         ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17 13:23                                                                                           ` Stephen Clark
2010-11-18 22:33                                                                                           ` Hans-Peter Jansen
2010-11-18 23:12                                                                                             ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-18 23:35                                                                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-18 23:43                                                                                                 ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-18 23:51                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-19  0:02                                                                                                     ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19  0:07                                                                                                       ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19 11:57                                                                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 14:24                                                                                                           ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19 14:43                                                                                                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 14:55                                                                                                               ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19  0:42                                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-19  0:59                                                                                                         ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19  1:11                                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-19  1:12                                                                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-19  1:23                                                                                                             ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19  2:28                                                                                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-19  9:02                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19 11:49                                                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 12:19                                                                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 12:55                                                                                                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2010-11-19 13:00                                                                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 13:20                                                                                                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2010-11-19 12:31                                                                                                     ` Paul Menage
2010-11-19 12:51                                                                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 13:03                                                                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-19 12:38                                                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-22  6:22                                                                                                     ` Balbir Singh
2010-11-18 23:29                                                                                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 20:44                                                                                       ` Pekka Enberg
2010-11-16 19:27                                                                                   ` Dhaval Giani
2010-11-16 19:42                                                                                     ` Diego Calleja
2010-11-16 19:45                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 19:56                                                                                       ` Paul Menage
2010-11-16 20:17                                                                                         ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-16 20:50                                                                                       ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-20 22:16                                                                                         ` Mika Laitio
2010-11-21  0:19                                                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 20:28                                                                                   ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 20:46                                                                                     ` David Miller
2010-11-16 21:08                                                                                       ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 21:14                                                                                         ` David Miller
2010-11-16 20:52                                                                                     ` Alan Cox
2010-11-16 21:08                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16 21:19                                                                                         ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 23:39                                                                                           ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-17  0:21                                                                                             ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17  2:06                                                                                               ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-17 14:57                                                                                                 ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-17 15:01                                                                                                   ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17 17:16                                                                                                     ` John Stoffel
2010-11-19  5:20                                                                                                 ` Andev
2010-11-19 11:59                                                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19 13:03                                                                                                     ` Ben Gamari
2010-11-19 13:07                                                                                                       ` Theodore Tso
2010-11-19 16:29                                                                                                         ` David Miller
2010-11-19 16:34                                                                                                           ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-19 16:43                                                                                                             ` David Miller
2010-11-19 17:51                                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-19 19:12                                                                                                                 ` Ben Gamari
2010-11-19 19:48                                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-20  1:33                                                                                                                     ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-19 20:38                                                                                                                   ` Paul Menage
2010-11-20  1:13                                                                                                                   ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-20  4:25                                                                                                                     ` Balbir Singh
2010-11-20 15:41                                                                                                                       ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-22  6:24                                                                                                                         ` Balbir Singh
2010-11-22 19:21                                                                                                                           ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-19 19:31                                                                                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-19 13:21                                                                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-17 22:34                                                                                         ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17 22:37                                                                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-17 22:45                                                                                             ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17 22:52                                                                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-18 15:00                                                                                                 ` Stephen Clark
2010-11-17 23:49                                                                                               ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 21:17                                                                                       ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-17 20:59                                                                                     ` James Cloos
2010-11-22  6:16                                                                                   ` Balbir Singh
2010-11-16 18:57                                                                                 ` Stephen Clark
2010-11-16 19:12                                                                                   ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-16 19:57                                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 20:36                                                                                   ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 19:42                                                                                 ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-16 18:08                                                                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 18:56                                                                               ` Stephen Clark
2010-11-16 20:05                                                                               ` Lennart Poettering
2010-11-16 20:15                                                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-19  0:35                                                                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-11-19  0:42                                                                                   ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-19  3:15                                                                                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
     [not found]                                                                       ` <20101120090955.GB12043@balbir.in.ibm.com>
2010-11-20 19:47                                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 13:04                                                                   ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-16 14:18                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 15:03                                                                       ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-16 15:41                                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 17:28                                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-16 17:42                                                                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-20 19:35                                                                             ` [PATCH v4] sched: automated per session " Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30 15:39                                                                               ` [tip:sched/core] sched: Add 'autogroup' scheduling feature: " tip-bot for Mike Galbraith
2010-12-15 17:50                                                                                 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-12-16  7:53                                                                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-16 14:09                                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-16 15:07                                                                                       ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-01-04 14:18                                                                                       ` [tip:sched/core] sched, autogroup: Fix potential access to freed memory tip-bot for Mike Galbraith
2010-12-20 13:08                                                                                 ` [tip:sched/core] sched: Add 'autogroup' scheduling feature: automated per session task groups Bharata B Rao
2010-12-20 13:19                                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-12-20 15:46                                                                                     ` Bharata B Rao
2010-12-20 15:53                                                                                       ` Bharata B Rao
2010-12-21  8:33                                                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-12-20 16:39                                                                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-21  5:04                                                                                         ` Bharata B Rao
2010-12-21  5:50                                                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-04 17:39                                                                               ` [PATCH v4] sched: " Colin Walters
2010-12-04 18:33                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-12-04 20:01                                                                                   ` Colin Walters
2010-12-04 22:39                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2010-12-04 23:43                                                                                       ` Colin Walters
2010-12-05  0:31                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2010-12-05  7:47                                                                                         ` Ray Lee
2010-12-05 19:22                                                                                           ` Colin Walters
2010-12-05 20:47                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2010-12-05 22:47                                                                                               ` Colin Walters
2010-12-05 22:58                                                                                                 ` Jesper Juhl
2010-12-05 23:05                                                                                                   ` Jesper Juhl [this message]
2010-12-07 18:51                                                                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-12-05 10:18                                                                                         ` Con Kolivas
2010-12-05 11:36                                                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-05 20:58                                                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2010-12-04 23:31                                                                                     ` david
2010-12-05 11:11                                                                                     ` Nikos Chantziaras
2010-12-05 15:12                                                                                       ` [PATCH v4] Regression: " Alan Cox
2010-12-05 16:16                                                                                         ` Florian Mickler
2010-12-05 19:48                                                                                           ` Alan Cox
2010-12-06 16:03                                                                                             ` Florian Mickler
2010-12-05 16:59                                                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-05 17:09                                                                                           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-05 17:15                                                                                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-06  0:28                                                                                     ` [PATCH v4] " Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-11-16 14:01                                                                   ` [RFC/RFT PATCH v3] sched: automated per tty " Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 14:19                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-17  1:31                                                                   ` Kyle McMartin
2010-11-17  1:50                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-17  1:56                                                                       ` Kyle McMartin
2010-11-17  2:14                                                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15  0:02                                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15 22:41                           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-11-15 23:25                             ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-20 19:33                               ` Jesper Juhl
2010-11-20 19:51                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-20 20:37                                   ` Jesper Juhl
2010-11-20 22:02                                   ` Konstantin Svist
2010-11-20 22:15                                     ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-20 22:18                                     ` Thomas Fjellstrom
2010-11-20 20:25                                 ` Samuel Thibault
2010-11-15 23:46                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-15 23:50                               ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16  0:04                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16  1:18                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-16  1:55                                     ` Paul Menage
2010-11-16 12:58                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-16 18:25                                         ` Paul Menage
2010-11-16 13:59                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-16 14:26                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-10-21 11:27               ` [RFC/RFT PATCH] " Mike Galbraith
2010-10-20 13:55 ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-10-20 14:41   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-21 13:37 [PATCH v4] sched: automated per session " Ingo Molnar
2010-11-21 13:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-21 15:44   ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-11-21 16:35     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-21 16:15 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-21 18:43 ` Gene Heskett
2010-11-25 16:00 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-28 14:24   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-28 19:31     ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-28 20:18       ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-29 11:53         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-29 12:30           ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-29 13:45             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-29 13:47               ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-29 14:04                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-29 16:27           ` Linus Torvalds
2010-11-29 16:44             ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-29 17:37             ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-29 18:03               ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-29 19:06               ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-29 19:20                 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-30  3:39                   ` Paul Turner
2010-11-30  4:14                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30  4:23                       ` Paul Turner
2010-11-30 13:18                         ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30 13:48                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-30 13:59                             ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-30 14:13                           ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-30 16:41                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30 15:17                           ` Vivek Goyal
2010-11-30 17:13                             ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30 19:36                               ` Vivek Goyal
2010-12-01  5:01                                 ` Américo Wang
2010-12-01  6:09                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-01 11:36                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-12-01 22:12                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-12-01  5:57                                 ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-01 11:33                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-12-01 11:55                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-01 14:55                                   ` Vivek Goyal
2010-12-01 15:04                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30  7:54                   ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-30 14:18                     ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-30 14:53                       ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-30 15:01                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-11-30 15:11                           ` Ingo Molnar
2010-11-30 16:28                       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-11-29  5:45       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-01  3:39     ` Paul Turner
2010-12-01  3:39     ` Paul Turner
2010-12-01  6:16       ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-03  5:11         ` Paul Turner
2010-12-03  6:48           ` Mike Galbraith
2010-12-03  8:37             ` Paul Turner
2010-12-04 23:55           ` James Courtier-Dutton
2010-12-05  5:11             ` Paul Turner
2010-12-07 11:32               ` Paul Turner
2010-12-15 12:10                 ` Paul Turner
2010-12-01 11:34       ` Peter Zijlstra

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