From: Dan Williams <dcbw@redhat.com>
To: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, Alex Elder <elder@linaro.org>
Cc: Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan <subashab@codeaurora.org>,
Bjorn Andersson <bjorn.andersson@linaro.org>,
David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
Ilias Apalodimas <ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org>,
evgreen@chromium.org, Ben Chan <benchan@google.com>,
Eric Caruso <ejcaruso@google.com>,
cpratapa@codeaurora.org, syadagir@codeaurora.org,
abhishek.esse@gmail.com, Networking <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
DTML <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-soc@vger.kernel.org,
Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/17] net: introduce Qualcomm IPA driver
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 10:18:26 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <b26cf34c0d3fa1a7a700cee935244d7a2a7e1388.camel@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAK8P3a2U=RzfpVaAgRP1QwPhRpZiBNsG5qdWjzwG=tCKZefYHA@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, 2019-06-04 at 10:13 +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 3:32 PM Alex Elder <elder@linaro.org> wrote:
> > On 6/3/19 5:04 AM, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 1:59 AM Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan
> > >
> > > - What I'm worried about most here is the flow control handling
> > > on the
> > > transmit side. The IPA driver now uses the modern BQL method to
> > > control how much data gets submitted to the hardware at any
> > > time.
> > > The rmnet driver also uses flow control using the
> > > rmnet_map_command() function, that blocks tx on the higher
> > > level device when the remote side asks us to.
> > > I fear that doing flow control for a single physical device on
> > > two
> > > separate netdev instances is counterproductive and confuses
> > > both sides.
> >
> > I understand what you're saying here, and instinctively I think
> > you're right.
> >
> > But BQL manages the *local* interface's ability to get rid of
> > packets, whereas the QMAP flow control is initiated by the other
> > end of the connection (the modem in this case).
> >
> > With multiplexing, it's possible that one of several logical
> > devices on the modem side has exhausted a resource and must
> > ask the source of the data on the host side to suspend the
> > flow. Meanwhile the other logical devices sharing the physical
> > link might be fine, and should not be delayed by the first one.
> >
> > It is the multiplexing itself that confuses the BQL algorithm.
> > The abstraction obscures the *real* rates at which individual
> > logical connections are able to transmit data.
>
> I would assume that the real rate constantly changes, at least
> for wireless interfaces that are also shared with other users
> on the same network. BQL is meant to deal with that, at least
> when using a modern queuing algorithm.
>
> > Even if the multiple logical interfaces implemented BQL, they
> > would not get the feedback they need directly from the IPA
> > driver, because transmitting over the physical interface might
> > succeed even if the logical interface on the modem side can't
> > handle more data. So I think the flow control commands may be
> > necessary, given multiplexing.
>
> Can you describe what kind of multiplexing is actually going on?
> I'm still unclear about what we actually use multiple logical
> interfaces for here, and how they relate to one another.
Each logical interface represents a different "connection" (PDP/EPS
context) to the provider network with a distinct IP address and QoS.
VLANs may be a suitable analogy but here they are L3+QoS.
In realistic example the main interface (say rmnet0) would be used for
web browsing and have best-effort QoS. A second interface (say rmnet1)
would be used for VOIP and have certain QoS guarantees from both the
modem and the network itself.
QMAP can also aggregate frames for a given channel (connection/EPS/PDP
context/rmnet interface/etc) to better support LTE speeds.
Dan
> > The rmnet driver could use BQL, and could return NETDEV_TX_BUSY
> > for a logical interface when its TX flow has been stopped by a
> > QMAP command. That way the feedback for BQL on the logical
> > interfaces would be provided in the right place.
> >
> > I have no good intuition about the interaction between
> > two layered BQL managed queues though.
>
> Returning NETDEV_TX_BUSY is usually a bad idea as that
> leads to unnecessary frame drop.
>
> I do think that using BQL and the QMAP flow command on
> the /same/ device would be best, as that throttles the connection
> when either of the two algorithms wants us to slow down.
>
> The question is mainly which of the two devices that should be.
> Doing it in the ipa driver is probably easier to implement here,
> but ideally I think we'd only have a single queue visible to the
> network stack, if we can come up with a way to do that.
>
> > > - I was a little confused by the location of the rmnet driver in
> > > drivers/net/ethernet/... More conventionally, I think as a
> > > protocol
> > > handler it should go into net/qmap/, with the ipa driver going
> > > into drivers/net/qmap/ipa/, similar to what we have fo
> > > ethernet,
> > > wireless, ppp, appletalk, etc.
> > >
> > > - The rx_handler uses gro_cells, which as I understand is meant
> > > for generic tunnelling setups and takes another loop through
> > > NAPI to aggregate data from multiple queues, but in case of
> > > IPA's single-queue receive calling gro directly would be
> > > simpler
> > > and more efficient.
> >
> > I have been planning to investigate some of the generic GRO
> > stuff for IPA but was going to wait on that until the basic
> > code was upstream.
>
> That's ok, that part can easily be changed after the fact, as it
> does not impact the user interface or the general design.
>
> > > From the overall design and the rmnet Kconfig description, it
> > > appears as though the intention as that rmnet could be a
> > > generic wrapper on top of any device, but from the
> > > implementation it seems that IPA is not actually usable that
> > > way and would always go through IPA.
> >
> > As far as I know *nothing* upstream currently uses rmnet; the
> > IPA driver will be the first, but as Bjorn said others seem to
> > be on the way. I'm not sure what you mean by "IPA is not
> > usable that way." Currently the IPA driver assumes a fixed
> > configuration, and that configuration assumes the use of QMAP,
> > and therefore assumes the rmnet driver is layered above it.
> > That doesn't preclude rmnet from using a different back end.
>
> Yes, that's what I meant above: IPA can only be used through
> rmnet (I wrote "through IPA", sorry for the typo), but cannot be
> used by itself.
>
> Arnd
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-06-04 15:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-05-31 3:53 [PATCH v2 00/17] net: introduce Qualcomm IPA driver Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 01/17] bitfield.h: add FIELD_MAX() and field_max() Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 02/17] dt-bindings: soc: qcom: add IPA bindings Alex Elder
2019-06-10 22:08 ` Rob Herring
2019-06-11 2:11 ` Alex Elder
2019-07-03 15:09 ` Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 03/17] soc: qcom: ipa: main code Alex Elder
2019-05-31 21:50 ` David Miller
2019-05-31 22:25 ` Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 04/17] soc: qcom: ipa: configuration data Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 05/17] soc: qcom: ipa: clocking, interrupts, and memory Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 06/17] soc: qcom: ipa: GSI headers Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 07/17] soc: qcom: ipa: the generic software interface Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 08/17] soc: qcom: ipa: GSI transactions Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 09/17] soc: qcom: ipa: IPA interface to GSI Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 10/17] soc: qcom: ipa: IPA endpoints Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 11/17] soc: qcom: ipa: immediate commands Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 12/17] soc: qcom: ipa: IPA network device and microcontroller Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 13/17] soc: qcom: ipa: AP/modem communications Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 14/17] soc: qcom: ipa: support build of IPA code Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 15/17] MAINTAINERS: add entry for the Qualcomm IPA driver Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 16/17] arm64: dts: sdm845: add IPA information Alex Elder
2019-05-31 3:53 ` [PATCH v2 17/17] arm64: defconfig: enable build of IPA code Alex Elder
2019-05-31 14:58 ` [PATCH v2 00/17] net: introduce Qualcomm IPA driver Dan Williams
2019-05-31 16:36 ` Alex Elder
2019-05-31 19:19 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-05-31 20:47 ` Alex Elder
2019-05-31 21:12 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-05-31 22:08 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-07 17:43 ` Alex Elder
2019-05-31 23:33 ` Bjorn Andersson
2019-05-31 23:59 ` Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan
2019-06-03 10:04 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-03 13:32 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-04 8:13 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-04 15:18 ` Dan Williams [this message]
2019-06-04 20:04 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-04 21:29 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-06 17:42 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-11 8:12 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-11 11:56 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-11 15:53 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-11 16:52 ` Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan
2019-06-11 17:22 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-12 8:31 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-12 14:27 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-12 15:06 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-17 11:42 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-17 12:25 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 15:20 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-18 18:06 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-24 16:21 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-25 14:14 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-26 13:36 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-26 17:55 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 18:48 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-24 16:21 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-18 13:45 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-18 19:03 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 20:09 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-18 20:15 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 20:33 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-18 20:39 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 21:06 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-19 20:56 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-24 16:21 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-24 16:40 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-25 14:19 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-26 13:39 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-26 13:58 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-26 17:48 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-26 17:45 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-26 13:51 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-17 11:28 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 13:16 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-18 13:48 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-18 19:14 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 19:59 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-18 20:36 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 20:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-18 21:02 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 21:15 ` Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan
2019-06-19 12:23 ` Arnd Bergmann
2019-06-19 18:47 ` Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan
2019-06-20 1:25 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-24 16:21 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-17 12:14 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-18 14:00 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-18 19:22 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-24 16:21 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-03 14:50 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-03 14:54 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-03 15:52 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-03 16:18 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-03 19:04 ` Subash Abhinov Kasiviswanathan
2019-06-04 15:21 ` Dan Williams
2019-05-31 23:27 ` Bjorn Andersson
2019-06-10 2:44 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-24 16:30 ` WWAN Controller Framework (was IPA [PATCH v2 00/17]) Alex Elder
2019-06-24 17:06 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-25 14:34 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-26 13:40 ` Alex Elder
2019-06-26 17:58 ` Johannes Berg
2019-06-24 19:54 ` Dan Williams
2019-06-24 21:16 ` Alex Elder
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