From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F14DC49ED6 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:20:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C54206A5 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:20:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728060AbfIKNUo convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:20:44 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:33758 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727659AbfIKNUn (ORCPT ); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:20:43 -0400 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9027C10CC218; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.18.17.163] (dhcp-17-163.bos.redhat.com [10.18.17.163]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FCCC5DE5B; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:19:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 0/8] stg mail -e --version=v9 \ To: Michal Hocko , David Hildenbrand Cc: "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Alexander Duyck , Alexander Duyck , virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, kvm list , Catalin Marinas , Dave Hansen , LKML , Matthew Wilcox , linux-mm , Andrew Morton , will@kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Oscar Salvador , Yang Zhang , Pankaj Gupta , Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , Rik van Riel , lcapitulino@redhat.com, "Wang, Wei W" , Andrea Arcangeli , ying.huang@intel.com, Paolo Bonzini , Dan Williams , Fengguang Wu , "Kirill A. Shutemov" References: <20190910144713.GF2063@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190910175213.GD4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <1d7de9f9f4074f67c567dbb4cc1497503d739e30.camel@linux.intel.com> <20190911113619.GP4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190911080804-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20190911121941.GU4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190911122526.GV4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <4748a572-57b3-31da-0dde-30138e550c3a@redhat.com> <20190911125413.GY4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> From: Nitesh Narayan Lal Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=nitesh@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFl4pQoBEADT/nXR2JOfsCjDgYmE2qonSGjkM1g8S6p9UWD+bf7YEAYYYzZsLtbilFTe z4nL4AV6VJmC7dBIlTi3Mj2eymD/2dkKP6UXlliWkq67feVg1KG+4UIp89lFW7v5Y8Muw3Fm uQbFvxyhN8n3tmhRe+ScWsndSBDxYOZgkbCSIfNPdZrHcnOLfA7xMJZeRCjqUpwhIjxQdFA7 n0s0KZ2cHIsemtBM8b2WXSQG9CjqAJHVkDhrBWKThDRF7k80oiJdEQlTEiVhaEDURXq+2XmG jpCnvRQDb28EJSsQlNEAzwzHMeplddfB0vCg9fRk/kOBMDBtGsTvNT9OYUZD+7jaf0gvBvBB lbKmmMMX7uJB+ejY7bnw6ePNrVPErWyfHzR5WYrIFUtgoR3LigKnw5apzc7UIV9G8uiIcZEn C+QJCK43jgnkPcSmwVPztcrkbC84g1K5v2Dxh9amXKLBA1/i+CAY8JWMTepsFohIFMXNLj+B RJoOcR4HGYXZ6CAJa3Glu3mCmYqHTOKwezJTAvmsCLd3W7WxOGF8BbBjVaPjcZfavOvkin0u DaFvhAmrzN6lL0msY17JCZo046z8oAqkyvEflFbC0S1R/POzehKrzQ1RFRD3/YzzlhmIowkM BpTqNBeHEzQAlIhQuyu1ugmQtfsYYq6FPmWMRfFPes/4JUU/PQARAQABtCVOaXRlc2ggTmFy YXlhbiBMYWwgPG5pbGFsQHJlZGhhdC5jb20+iQI9BBMBCAAnBQJZeKUKAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJ CAcCBhUICQoLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEKOGQNwGMqM56lEP/A2KMs/pu0URcVk/kqVwcBhU SnvB8DP3lDWDnmVrAkFEOnPX7GTbactQ41wF/xwjwmEmTzLrMRZpkqz2y9mV0hWHjqoXbOCS 6RwK3ri5e2ThIPoGxFLt6TrMHgCRwm8YuOSJ97o+uohCTN8pmQ86KMUrDNwMqRkeTRW9wWIQ EdDqW44VwelnyPwcmWHBNNb1Kd8j3xKlHtnS45vc6WuoKxYRBTQOwI/5uFpDZtZ1a5kq9Ak/ MOPDDZpd84rqd+IvgMw5z4a5QlkvOTpScD21G3gjmtTEtyfahltyDK/5i8IaQC3YiXJCrqxE r7/4JMZeOYiKpE9iZMtS90t4wBgbVTqAGH1nE/ifZVAUcCtycD0f3egX9CHe45Ad4fsF3edQ ESa5tZAogiA4Hc/yQpnnf43a3aQ67XPOJXxS0Qptzu4vfF9h7kTKYWSrVesOU3QKYbjEAf95 NewF9FhAlYqYrwIwnuAZ8TdXVDYt7Z3z506//sf6zoRwYIDA8RDqFGRuPMXUsoUnf/KKPrtR ceLcSUP/JCNiYbf1/QtW8S6Ca/4qJFXQHp0knqJPGmwuFHsarSdpvZQ9qpxD3FnuPyo64S2N Dfq8TAeifNp2pAmPY2PAHQ3nOmKgMG8Gn5QiORvMUGzSz8Lo31LW58NdBKbh6bci5+t/HE0H pnyVf5xhNC/FuQINBFl4pQoBEACr+MgxWHUP76oNNYjRiNDhaIVtnPRqxiZ9v4H5FPxJy9UD Bqr54rifr1E+K+yYNPt/Po43vVL2cAyfyI/LVLlhiY4yH6T1n+Di/hSkkviCaf13gczuvgz4 KVYLwojU8+naJUsiCJw01MjO3pg9GQ+47HgsnRjCdNmmHiUQqksMIfd8k3reO9SUNlEmDDNB XuSzkHjE5y/R/6p8uXaVpiKPfHoULjNRWaFc3d2JGmxJpBdpYnajoz61m7XJlgwl/B5Ql/6B dHGaX3VHxOZsfRfugwYF9CkrPbyO5PK7yJ5vaiWre7aQ9bmCtXAomvF1q3/qRwZp77k6i9R3 tWfXjZDOQokw0u6d6DYJ0Vkfcwheg2i/Mf/epQl7Pf846G3PgSnyVK6cRwerBl5a68w7xqVU 4KgAh0DePjtDcbcXsKRT9D63cfyfrNE+ea4i0SVik6+N4nAj1HbzWHTk2KIxTsJXypibOKFX 2VykltxutR1sUfZBYMkfU4PogE7NjVEU7KtuCOSAkYzIWrZNEQrxYkxHLJsWruhSYNRsqVBy KvY6JAsq/i5yhVd5JKKU8wIOgSwC9P6mXYRgwPyfg15GZpnw+Fpey4bCDkT5fMOaCcS+vSU1 UaFmC4Ogzpe2BW2DOaPU5Ik99zUFNn6cRmOOXArrryjFlLT5oSOe4IposgWzdwARAQABiQIl BBgBCAAPBQJZeKUKAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEKOGQNwGMqM5ELoP/jj9d9gF1Al4+9bngUlYohYu 0sxyZo9IZ7Yb7cHuJzOMqfgoP4tydP4QCuyd9Q2OHHL5AL4VFNb8SvqAxxYSPuDJTI3JZwI7 d8JTPKwpulMSUaJE8ZH9n8A/+sdC3CAD4QafVBcCcbFe1jifHmQRdDrvHV9Es14QVAOTZhnJ vweENyHEIxkpLsyUUDuVypIo6y/Cws+EBCWt27BJi9GH/EOTB0wb+2ghCs/i3h8a+bi+bS7L FCCm/AxIqxRurh2UySn0P/2+2eZvneJ1/uTgfxnjeSlwQJ1BWzMAdAHQO1/lnbyZgEZEtUZJ x9d9ASekTtJjBMKJXAw7GbB2dAA/QmbA+Q+Xuamzm/1imigz6L6sOt2n/X/SSc33w8RJUyor SvAIoG/zU2Y76pKTgbpQqMDmkmNYFMLcAukpvC4ki3Sf086TdMgkjqtnpTkEElMSFJC8npXv 3QnGGOIfFug/qs8z03DLPBz9VYS26jiiN7QIJVpeeEdN/LKnaz5LO+h5kNAyj44qdF2T2AiF HxnZnxO5JNP5uISQH3FjxxGxJkdJ8jKzZV7aT37sC+Rp0o3KNc+GXTR+GSVq87Xfuhx0LRST NK9ZhT0+qkiN7npFLtNtbzwqaqceq3XhafmCiw8xrtzCnlB/C4SiBr/93Ip4kihXJ0EuHSLn VujM7c/b4pps Organization: Red Hat Inc, Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:19:40 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190911125413.GY4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.65]); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:20:43 +0000 (UTC) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 9/11/19 8:54 AM, Michal Hocko wrote: > On Wed 11-09-19 14:42:41, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 11.09.19 14:25, Michal Hocko wrote: >>> On Wed 11-09-19 14:19:41, Michal Hocko wrote: >>>> On Wed 11-09-19 08:08:38, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 01:36:19PM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote: >>>>>> On Tue 10-09-19 14:23:40, Alexander Duyck wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> We don't put any limitations on the allocator other then that it needs to >>>>>>> clean up the metadata on allocation, and that it cannot allocate a page >>>>>>> that is in the process of being reported since we pulled it from the >>>>>>> free_list. If the page is a "Reported" page then it decrements the >>>>>>> reported_pages count for the free_area and makes sure the page doesn't >>>>>>> exist in the "Boundary" array pointer value, if it does it moves the >>>>>>> "Boundary" since it is pulling the page. >>>>>> This is still a non-trivial limitation on the page allocation from an >>>>>> external code IMHO. I cannot give any explicit reason why an ordering on >>>>>> the free list might matter (well except for page shuffling which uses it >>>>>> to make physical memory pattern allocation more random) but the >>>>>> architecture seems hacky and dubious to be honest. It shoulds like the >>>>>> whole interface has been developed around a very particular and single >>>>>> purpose optimization. >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that there was an attempt to report free memory that provided >>>>>> a callback mechanism [1], which was much less intrusive to the internals >>>>>> of the allocator yet it should provide a similar functionality. Did you >>>>>> see that approach? How does this compares to it? Or am I completely off >>>>>> when comparing them? >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] mostly likely not the latest version of the patchset >>>>>> http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1502940416-42944-5-git-send-email-wei.w.wang@intel.com >>>>> Linus nacked that one. He thinks invoking callbacks with lots of >>>>> internal mm locks is too fragile. >>>> I would be really curious how much he would be happy about injecting >>>> other restrictions on the allocator like this patch proposes. This is >>>> more intrusive as it has a higher maintenance cost longterm IMHO. >>> Btw. I do agree that callbacks with internal mm locks are not great >>> either. We do have a model for that in mmu_notifiers and it is something >>> I do consider PITA, on the other hand it is mostly sleepable part of the >>> interface which makes it the real pain. The above callback mechanism was >>> explicitly documented with restrictions and that the context is >>> essentially atomic with no access to particular struct pages and no >>> expensive operations possible. So in the end I've considered it >>> acceptably painful. Not that I want to override Linus' nack but if >>> virtualization usecases really require some form of reporting and no >>> other way to do that push people to invent even more interesting >>> approaches then we should simply give them/you something reasonable >>> and least intrusive to our internals. >>> >> The issue with "[PATCH v14 4/5] mm: support reporting free page blocks" >> is that it cannot really handle the use case we have here if I am not >> wrong. While a page is getting processed by the hypervisor (e.g. >> MADV_DONTNEED), it must not get reused. > What prevents to use the callback to get a list of pfn ranges to work on > and then use something like start_isolate_page_range on the collected > pfn ranges to make sure nobody steals pages from under your feet, do > your thing and drop the isolated state afterwards. > In my series, I am doing something similar. - Track (MAX_ORDER - 2) free pages in bitmap maintained on a per-zone   basis. - Use __isolate_free_page on the pages marked in the bitmap and are   still free. - Report chunks of 16 isolated pages to the hypervisor. - Return them back to the buddy once the request is processed. > I am saying somethig like because you wouldn't really want a generic > has_unmovable_pages but rather > if (!page_ref_count(page)) { > if (PageBuddy(page)) > iter += (1 << page_order(page)) - 1; > continue; > } > subset of it. -- Thanks Nitesh