From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C288C4332B for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064AC22BE9 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732019AbhAKPFu (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:05:50 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:37555 "EHLO mout.gmx.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726459AbhAKPFr (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:05:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1610377452; bh=3EJylRDIVB92ko0ziXyNuJcEzvFJ7aK75H2nlm6+7bk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=KPXGCxLF3eU3I9fRnG2Q7A5ovJLjj1GPza+k/CxZHUUoBu/+zxOzdPyrW/TkPxcaZ +OaLZcc27+kSol5w4AtwkYw3rPw5ZnnYc9ASGkAD8Evhcjksu/+HNoNf0qH/SwgQoq IDkxIE/Llx1YbHLl+twpW07giCxxuoioiUZnzu5A= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.81] ([82.59.212.144]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N1OXT-1jy2HH23GF-012tLd; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:04:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , Arnd Bergmann Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List , linux-m68k , Sparc kernel list , Linux-sh list References: From: Gerhard Pircher Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=gerhard_pircher@gmx.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJ8FFoBEACppfmJokJ5NMYp+JnpOH65xNtMBVfgUKW+nwuE1SsiQvao7V5/XrX+SsXI Enk9GGU/FDnEJrjOK2c0t7zticDhveZCaEtAXupJjnIMpZo0IGy8mkX91ypozyHWhIfiIgDM HY/mwyNdDYGwWIZahHdi+xrbkYrYj00ViXyv9OSFPHYHhGJI0kmoUzdc3+s5q53vUn2xrl2W BMolE+6fLS3ZjmVNdl9zjgwRM+rE1tIR61fFBuiMSxhrUtSO8eyWQbQpnyQp6OK4oBHioPLQ +yVgFFlyosF1DCxKX94mZ6hTOMUJeNug84gpQZRlsDGPr8ke4w7YSS18DJj8IJPWZzFvLqIF KRd+gfIvujAk4ScVvL0SMpMMHEqN6E64xwbMuPdanj4u5ZLbvmggXPbTZ1Lo2pZeNoPP9RGR 2B7W1WomQiZEzGiV99pW5l4e0a3wIj9GldoDvGyS0SfW9T/kBH1vkbCstmhSrcvGPqxYXqFx c0mI5TliIH93jPhnDnJj5nHDN665hz1XSaYKAtWngJsm7HfqRuqbEe2PHoErj3H7bVbGNvfp BulXfCjAp+LcmfWlkH6lzd7mvqGFQ2lTguvL6ZCiWNWVq81wsJ8eUPlGikRg3rxY63+pfao5 zDD4GaSxvePKI/kdZ7Q7UJgg9RLM1LQTCe7kD19g3YpJu9YdkQARAQABtClHZXJoYXJkIFBp cmNoZXIgPGdlcmhhcmRfcGlyY2hlckBnbXgubmV0PokCTQQTAQoANwQLCQgHAhUKAhYBAhkB Ap4BApsjFiEED327A82TVD0VemhZ0Yg+eBGoazYFAl3B9KAFCQ0nE8YACgkQ0Yg+eBGoazZj Wg/+IVmoUxbBUMnbrK/kvAKBAo1zhiVGRMXk5QAD//6VhKzb02pfH79sdnyOcYmQEWDh7dbv 3kzjbmjLrhunf0pqOUPP/0Ad66acFsLfh/up/LgDcWUP5nE5YRbYaQ/Av5zFhJaBM5SqV1LB OiQ+dLKH5oNtx0W54d2YqSoIIFSHbUPt49RL4fvcX73w1sQT0KZZgRjCfyVuYvHWaW1CdEfi B0OWnIlenrXoVcQrrd99WKxy8sdzRfF3YmLwqVZmOGhcpp/PODeSbHMoPo2wfLMToKtcvYPH ilNwTQHGghoR8v0SdkDS+W4fkoX92xPdvADTHqXI4LOIDKPbaUPcqY62F0B55Dk2H6XgTg00 84Yi5RDosFO7DteVuYpm4UOytrCoB/HfHduex7+ZP9bsT+W3Fyj1k7L/DXD7MT70Z68zyhEb W5eCoKe2OWEbYvMRNLVT8tUzMchJpra7LJzCg9uTWdcqywrZ2jNvgdO3jh+TBxcwj3O8LfWq UrZxoFcEB92Kufg68ACaHdKjl+geGFKBSPTrUb9befUSfv2WfBpdHmuRWRUEpSOG3SHAYurc HccFtJtcdF/a6gxwyHz0jeXPNcSxBOKnU9xh5oVTigxIERs5CUdfl9ugsNGAzfsRQn5XdJOL cWwysQhchRW6kXT386cHq25icairzwbcEpi7etg= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:04:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:MlWhL7GVxwFDIJnrjVA2obGipsevKZ5cKIO62cjtF7D8u4+nJwH d1Izq11BC5a6SNTmeL9ar4zE6tB87dCgDWxDTAPWeBltg1bqFuO5l1i/7NUtg59bw+FIbap F144986xX+kAVuVsHMgEG+oVWhnxY+RYHC4oIBPCE4D1bvGmHfvZZzkLaFmJM5IUKDtEJ7u XZdXtMkMuyymWmfMbviRw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:YB6FUPUySdQ=:K2bton6tAZKZUNtEfShPUR YMOb3v9fDlMSrwCHOT4ih7757hwCODnHUVWi/6jXpBZtDMF0Q2druCim0kW39qnfPU74Xm+Py nP9cEsbYRxFnEaHDxjFEGbRu/wmQ8Qj2nX3SbrCMSEuY2trl63JUPWosZlSmFN4TI9PgPm8IQ 8hk9+e+I1VwJJL0yv5GlGqT4UCp4jsXa7WCxBchlSXe3i96WKUqsp5BQhC72/G9JyOV34eeK4 5PDeEJbiVC+cWJWlvyxGJLSmeeOt/uNfShJsaEkVi2vSGmFDiFL4kgtlAJRbgGDVBsfYhWbkK /n6jGkQpbCsS5arailGaJhfFmRGTgBnIuTMMXy5HL3J2b/i2wcOG1TxSecnZf7TFb2nfpzUm2 ls+lC5352dGgHgwXjS0Mzg0DiIxpt76VSmJe6Q44MEON5Ug8WNxPmUAOTzUGYSjJMgox7DHPO dFmuG7BleCE8SykAajxBUiUS59dTIWKQ2OU7PQx2WIr3Gt+IR0DxnzhYNJ8RluTzWk4aR2Dov MvfJGtZaszx23O7CLk1PkycPID+73jxOIZ2CpDFZRCtrrhHQkOmQ6rBTal0dV/4alZDVRgLZa taxbOQfkTijZRKEpHoia0hI1fnca7s/rgoD0sYurotoYtpS4vR5j+vYXHK2eWqD81Tt3kJy6Y 23UUpSiLuCrrhoJ3HWvqlFjMhaPLUQGbtoZAzwLQqTGe+W7Rr4foMsEk6y0a7hFekjL7WNR+U R2bDKTNGHDsTdiYBmzg0AEfDKa+VMfjUezZ0gjuNR1EYeZ1uM47UagdizbOvO97QF0VxiFHSQ Fb0suUMuioj2gNdviyNWHZpvVEP+ROmOf9Bp4Cxn47CSzzhW/oNvHpvVC3NVamF/n9Ls9AFRJ wJwTKfp0+oRWTrRSGvHQ== Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Am 10.01.21 um 18:35 schrieb John Paul Adrian Glaubitz: > Hi Arnd! > > (Please let's have this cross-posted for more visibility. I only learned= about this > while reading Phoronix news) Same for me! >> I also looked at non-ARM platforms while preparing for my article. Some= of >> these look like they are no longer actively maintained or used, but I'm= not >> doing anything about those unless the maintainers would like me to: >> >> * h8300: Steven Rostedt has repeatedly asked about it to be removed >> or fixed in 2020 with no reply. This was killed before in 2013, adde= d back >> in 2015 but has been mostly stale again since 2016 > > As far as I know, Yoshinori Sato is actively maintaining H8300 support, = see: > >> https://osdn.net/projects/uclinux-h8/ > >> * c6x: Added in 2011, this has seen very few updates since, but >> Mark still Acks patches when they come. Like most other DSP platfor= ms, >> the model of running Linux on a DSP appears to have been obsoleted >> by using Linux on ARM with on-chip DSP cores running bare-metal cod= e. >> * sparc/sun4m: A patch for removing 32-bit Sun sparc support (not LEON) >> is currently under review > > I don't think this has reached any agreement yet. Multiple people want i= t to stay. > >> * powerpc/cell: I'm the maintainer and I promised to send a patch to re= move it. >> it's in my backlog but I will get to it. This is separate from PS3, >> which is actively maintained and used; spufs will move to ps3 >> * powerpc/chrp (32-bit rs6000, pegasos2): last updated in 2009 > > I'm still using this. Please keep it. I can also confirm that Pegasos2 users in the Amiga scene are running Linu= x (Debian) on these machines. >> * powerpc/amigaone: last updated in 2009 I still have 2 of the 3 types of the first generation AmigaOne machines (n= ot to be confused with the newer AmigaOne X1000 and X5000 machines based on PASemi and P5020 CPUs) working here. A third machine needs a repair of the G4 CPU module (replacement parts already available). I have to admit however that I yet have to setup an environment that allow= s me to regularly test new Linux kernel versions on these machines. Especial= ly because there are not many Linux users for these machines - which is likel= y due to the fact that no distribution officially supports these machines ou= t of the box (the Pegasos2 platform had more luck here). Inputs on how to automate tests would therefore be very welcome! Given however that the Debian PowerPC port has a proper maintainer again (kudos to Adrian!) and there is also another new PowerPC distro (Void Linu= x), I would like to ask for a period of grace. After all this is just a hobby project for me, so keeping up with the pace of the Linux development isn't always that easy (and no, work on this did not stop in 2009, but shifted m= ore towards distro support since then). >> * powerpc/maple: last updated in 2011 >> * m68k/{apollo,hp300,sun3,q40} these are all presumably dead and have n= ot >> seen updates in many years (atari/amiga/mac and coldfire are very mu= ch >> alive) > > Dito. I have both sun3 and hp300 machines. > >> * mips/jazz: last updated in 2007 >> * mips/cobalt: last updated in 2010 >> >> There might be some value in dropping old CPU support on architectures >> and platforms that are almost exclusively used with more modern CPUs. >> If there are only few users, those can still keep using v5.10 or v5.4 s= table >> kernels for a few more years. Again, I'm not doing anything about them, >> except mention them since I did the research. >> These are the oldest one by architecture, and they may have reached >> their best-served-by-date: >> >> * 80486SX/DX: 80386 CPUs were dropped in 2012, and there are >> indications that 486 have no users either on recent kernels. >> There is still the Vortex86 family of SoCs, and the oldest of those w= ere >> 486SX-class, but all the modern ones are 586-class. >> * Alpha 2106x: First generation that lacks some of the later features. >> Since all Alphas are ancient by now, it's hard to tell whether these = have >> any fewer users. > > I don't see the point in crippling Alpha support. Does this achieve anyt= hing? > >> * IA64 Merced: first generation Itanium (2001) was quickly replaced by >> Itanium II in 2002. >> * MIPS R3000/TX39xx: 32-bit MIPS-II generation, mostly superseded by >> 64-bit MIPS-III (R4000 and higher) starting in 1991. arch/mips still >> supports these in DECstation and Toshiba Txx9, but it appears that mo= st >> of those machines are of the 64-bit kind. Later MIPS32 such as 4Kc an= d >> later are rather different and widely used. >> * PowerPC 601 (from 1992) just got removed, later 60x, 4xx, 8xx etc >> are apparently all still used. >> * SuperH SH-2: We discussed removing SH-2 (not J2 or SH-4) >> support in the past, I don't think there were any objections, but >> nobody submitted a patch. > > Isn't SH-2 basically J-2? I'm not sure what we would gain here. > >> * 68000/68328 (Dragonball): these are less capable than the >> 68020+ or the Coldfire MCF5xxx line and similar to the 68360 >> that was removed in 2016. > > Adrian >