From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F1BC38142 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 17:40:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230443AbjAaRku (ORCPT ); Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:40:50 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:42574 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230009AbjAaRks (ORCPT ); Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:40:48 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [170.10.129.124]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9189C93D3 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:39:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1675186796; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=MsCyJ6wih57A5GjVGHDZm3qG6/Eq1d91lr2fpDgzdcg=; b=YMe9ioUQrw8UxhyffKrJCHeCBDLaAR78FqXNuODFcrr4Cwlbp9KQxYZcIL3Fv3b6Ps9kxJ K3G2j3KDBqA/KRwJsPnC7DSuWxf2s5LfIvbtojcPE/9xJWTex82U+svI4M8BzRXbhvOf4j 1wDfT4EzSHBL0f9Q4NHwgF3iHLco0Xw= Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mx3-rdu2.redhat.com [66.187.233.73]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-157-RoLOdRQVOLGwdjK3BbJPbw-1; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:39:54 -0500 X-MC-Unique: RoLOdRQVOLGwdjK3BbJPbw-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5294638173D2; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 17:39:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ptitbras (unknown [10.39.194.55]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBBF3112132C; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 17:39:47 +0000 (UTC) References: User-agent: mu4e 1.8.0; emacs 28.2 From: Christophe de Dinechin To: "Reshetova, Elena" Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , "Shishkin, Alexander" , "Shutemov, Kirill" , "Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan" , "Kleen, Andi" , "Hansen, Dave" , Thomas Gleixner , Peter Zijlstra , "Wunner, Lukas" , Mika Westerberg , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Jason Wang , "Poimboe, Josh" , "aarcange@redhat.com" , Cfir Cohen , Marc Orr , "jbachmann@google.com" , "pgonda@google.com" , "keescook@chromium.org" , James Morris , Michael Kelley , "Lange, Jon" , "linux-coco@lists.linux.dev" , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: Linux guest kernel threat model for Confidential Computing Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 17:52:57 +0100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.3 Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 2023-01-31 at 10:06 UTC, "Reshetova, Elena" wrote... > Hi Dinechin, Nit: My first name is actually Christophe ;-) [snip] >> "The implementation of the #VE handler is simple and does not require an >> in-depth security audit or fuzzing since it is not the actual consumer of >> the host/VMM supplied untrusted data": The assumption there seems to be that >> the host will never be able to supply data (e.g. through a bounce buffer) >> that it can trick the guest into executing. If that is indeed the >> assumption, it is worth mentioning explicitly. I suspect it is a bit weak, >> since many earlier attacks were based on executing the wrong code. Notably, >> it is worth pointing out that I/O buffers are _not_ encrypted with the CPU >> key (as opposed to any device key e.g. for PCI encryption) in either >> TDX or SEV. Is there for example anything that precludes TDX or SEV from >> executing code in the bounce buffers? > > This was already replied by Kirill, any code execution out of shared memory generates > a #GP. Apologies for my wording. Everyone interpreted "executing" as "executing directly on the bounce buffer page", when what I meant is "consuming data fetched from the bounce buffers as code" (not necessarily directly). For example, in the diagram in your document, the guest kernel is a monolithic piece. In reality, there are dynamically loaded components. In the original SEV implementation, with pre-attestation, the measurement could only apply before loading any DLKM (I believe, not really sure). As another example, SEVerity (CVE-2020-12967 [1]) worked by injecting a payload directly into the guest kernel using virtio-based network I/O. That is what I referred to when I wrote "many earlier attacks were based on executing the wrong code". The fact that I/O buffers are not encrypted matters here, because it gives the host ample latitude to observe or even corrupt all I/Os, as many others have pointed out. Notably, disk crypto may not be designed to resist to a host that can see and possibly change the I/Os. So let me rephrase my vague question as a few more precise ones: 1) What are the effects of semi-random kernel code injection? If the host knows that a given bounce buffer happens to be used later to execute some kernel code, it can start flipping bits in it to try and trigger arbitrary code paths in the guest. My understanding is that crypto alone (i.e. without additional layers like dm-integrity) will happily decrypt that into a code stream with pseudo-random instructions in it, not vehemently error out. So, while TDX precludes the host from writing into guest memory directly, since the bounce buffers are shared, TDX will not prevent the host from flipping bits there. It's then just a matter of guessing where the bits will go, and hoping that some bits execute at guest PL0. Of course, this can be mitigated by either only using static configs, or using dm-verity/dm-integrity, or maybe some other mechanisms. Shouldn't that be part of your document? To be clear: you mention under "Storage protection" that you use dm-crypt and dm-integrity, so I believe *you* know, but your readers may not figure out why dm-integrity is integral to the process, notably after you write "Users could use other encryption schemes". 2) What are the effects of random user code injection? It's the same as above, except that now you can target a much wider range of input data, including shell scripts, etc. So the attack surface is much larger. 3) What is the effect of data poisoning? You don't necessarily need to corrupt code. Being able to corrupt a system configuration file for example can be largely sufficient. 4) Are there I/O-based replay attacks that would work pre-attestation? My current mental model is that you load a "base" software stack into the TCB and then measure a relevant part of it. What you measure is somewhat implementation-dependent, but in the end, if the system is attested, you respond to a cryptographic challenge based on what was measured, and you then get relevant secrets, e.g. a disk decryption key, that let you make forward progress. However, what happens if every time you boot, the host feeds you bogus disk data just to try to steer the boot sequence along some specific path? I believe that the short answer is: the guest either: a) reaches attestation, but with bad in-memory data, so it fails the crypto exchange, and secrets are not leaked. b) does not reach attestation, so never gets the secrets, and therefore still fulfils the CC promise of not leaking secrets. So I personally feel this is OK, but it's worth writing up in your doc. Back to the #VE handler, if I can find a way to inject malicious code into my guest, what you wrote in that paragraph as a justification for no in-depth security still seems like "not exactly defense in depth". I would just remove the sentence, audit and fuzz that code with the same energy as for anything else that could face bad input. [1]: https://www.sec.in.tum.de/i20/student-work/code-execution-attacks-against-encrypted-virtual-machines -- Cheers, Christophe de Dinechin (https://c3d.github.io) Theory of Incomplete Measurements (https://c3d.github.io/TIM)