From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S268130AbTGLQ4q (ORCPT ); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:56:46 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S268110AbTGLQ4c (ORCPT ); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:56:32 -0400 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.224.249]:51927 "EHLO main.gmane.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S268115AbTGLQ4S (ORCPT ); Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:56:18 -0400 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org From: Jan Rychter Subject: Re: networking bugs and bugme.osdl.org Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1056755336.5459.16.camel@dhcp22.swansea.linux.org.uk> <20030627.172123.78713883.davem@redhat.com> <1056827972.6295.28.camel@dhcp22.swansea.linux.org.uk> <20030628.150328.74739742.davem@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org X-Spammers-Please: blackholeme@rychter.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Q5NfW1XO9gryg4flfNXqetJHZ5Y= Cc: linux-net@vger.kernel.org, netdev@oss.sgi.com Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "David" =3D=3D David S Miller writes: David> From: Alan Cox Date: 28 Jun 2003 David> 20:19:32 +0100 David> On Sad, 2003-06-28 at 01:21, David S. Miller wrote: >> I respond to private reports with "please send this to the lists, >> what if I were on vacation for the next month?" I never actually >> process or analyze such reports. =20=20=20 David> Which means you miss stuff. David> Not my problem Alan. If the user gives a crap about their David> report mattering, they'll do what I ask them to do. If users David> send their report to the wrong place, it will get lost, just David> like if their cat their report into /dev/null. I have no reason David> to feel bad about the information getting lost. David> If it's too much for them to do as I ask, it's too much for me David> to consider their report. [...] I think this is one of the largest problems of the current Linux development model. Many people seem to divide people into 'users' (who aren't particularly useful) and 'developers', who actually do something. People (like me), who can devote a _little_ time to narrowing down and reporting bugs fall into the 'user-whiner' class. And get ignored. What results is that you only get bug reports from active developers. Which means that rare bugs don't get fixed. David> It is not a dream, it works perfectly fine and has done so for David> 5+ years of Linux maintainence. It hasn't. The result is a system that works for you (and other active developers), but not for everyone. As an example -- try running Linux on a modern laptop, connecting some USB devices, using ACPI, or bluetooth. Observe the resulting problems and crashes. You'll hit loads of obscure bugs that have been reported, but never got looked at in detail. I certainly have hit them and reported most, and most got dropped in various places. Does this mean these are unimportant bugs? No. This does indeed mean (following your thinking) that these aren't important bugs for me. I have worked around them in various ways, some involving actually buying new hardware, or not using certain features at all. And the cycle will go on -- others will hit the bugs, report them once, see them dropped, move on. David> Let's see, what makes more sense from my perspective. Should I David> reward and put forth effort for the people who fart a bug report David> onto the lists and expect everyone to stop what they're doing David> and fix the bug, or should I reward and put forth effort for the David> guy who spent the time to put together a stellar bug report and David> also doesn't mind retransmitting it from time to time whilst David> everyone is busy? Interesting you should think you're 'rewarding' people. I thought your goal was to have fun working on cool software and making it better. I also thought I had the same goal as a bug-reporter. When I write software, I care about every bug report and consider people doing the reporting a very valuable resource. =2D-J. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/EEBjLth4/7/QhDoRAra7AKDtnJwjGSrjhkFYu4jPKWcdBD/uagCcCl1c J0eXeqyfh5xI4A8QMxI5PkE= =MxwA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--