From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54407C433DB for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 02:09:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6622388E for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 02:09:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2392849AbhAUBv3 (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:51:29 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([216.205.24.124]:31016 "EHLO us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S2389462AbhAUBgj (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:36:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1611192897; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=b434st/d4UhGLE71zd3bXRuvYmRlQkOm8SFHO1G+7yM=; b=cSq3NLAJEnXH9S9ghrO7XiGDHuCC6JjuQ6McwR9ZvrMiz9K4VhLXBEnYa9Byq8+L6O+WBE CzOrTub2d7p+MO1BxEdGF9efJ6mOWFRym4JzuxgyTzgsx7Gn/xWR1oVmSwZs/pBgIchx1V fH1tCRJXkHp7CddKe+sfKGEDdXVbf20= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-397-PtBUzNy_NxCS2247KOVU7w-1; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:34:52 -0500 X-MC-Unique: PtBUzNy_NxCS2247KOVU7w-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx05.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AB661842144; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 01:34:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [10.10.110.18]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A1D5D74C; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 01:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <82243bc066a12235099639928a271a8fe338668e.camel@redhat.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 17/18] net: iosm: readme file From: Dan Williams To: Jakub Kicinski , Andrew Lunn Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn?= Mork , M Chetan Kumar , netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, johannes@sipsolutions.net, krishna.c.sudi@intel.com Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 19:34:48 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20210120153255.4fcf7e32@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> References: <20210107170523.26531-1-m.chetan.kumar@intel.com> <20210107170523.26531-18-m.chetan.kumar@intel.com> <87turftqxt.fsf@miraculix.mork.no> <20210120153255.4fcf7e32@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.5 (3.36.5-2.fc32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.15 Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 2021-01-20 at 15:32 -0800, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:34:51 +0100 Andrew Lunn wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 06:26:54PM +0100, Bjørn Mork wrote: > > > I was young and stupid. Now I'm not that young anymore ;-) > > > > We all make mistakes, when we don't have the knowledge there are > > other > > ways. That is partially what code review is about. > > > > > Never ever imagined that this would be replicated in another > > > driver, > > > though. That doesn't really make much sense. We have learned by > > > now, > > > haven't we? This subject has been discussed a few times in the > > > past, > > > and Johannes summary is my understanding as well: > > > "I don't think anyone likes that" > > > > So there seems to be agreement there. But what is not clear, is > > anybody willing to do the work to fix this, and is there enough > > ROI. > > > > Do we expect more devices like this? Will 6G, 7G modems look very > > different? > > Didn't Intel sell its 5G stuff off to Apple? Yes, but they kept the ability to continue with 3G/4G hardware and other stuff. > > Be real network devices and not need any of this odd stuff? > > Or will they be just be incrementally better but mostly the same? > > > > I went into the review thinking it was an Ethernet driver, and kept > > having WTF moments. Now i know it is not an Ethernet driver, i can > > say > > it is not my domain, i don't know the field well enough to say if > > all > > these hacks are acceptable or not. > > > > It probably needs David and Jakub to set the direction to be > > followed. > > AFAIU all those cellar modems are relatively slow and FW-heavy, so > the > ideal solution IMO is not even a common kernel interface but actually > a common device interface, like NVMe (or virtio for lack of better > examples). That was supposed to be MBIM, but unfortunately those involved didn't iterate and MBIM got stuck. I don't think we'll see a standard as long as some vendors are dominant and see no need for it. Dan