From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B16C433EA for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 19:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED712065D for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 19:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="L+UbWVFo" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726974AbgGOTXy (ORCPT ); Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:23:54 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com ([205.139.110.120]:27842 "EHLO us-smtp-1.mimecast.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726479AbgGOTXx (ORCPT ); Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:23:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1594841031; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=HjxFHndoo5VUha/f0J2Qhspp+zsrHL4Q9bSPbhWoUxA=; b=L+UbWVFomwy2W1RP24pqaMapfxoIbmiuguLp1/IDr69x2rIzx2LR0iBGqfbaEMUqG3wYxF y6MEk9wlUvo3SnOery/uFZmtvpaxtn5H6q7mNV1f2miuyxT6sGLGRRWY50e/o0EnF0Z1iA mJ0f655lXmkFugPrtn6gSZA6RiVVBVQ= Received: from mail-ot1-f70.google.com (mail-ot1-f70.google.com [209.85.210.70]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-92-pH5Q9KJhP1ir3ra_jwaTlg-1; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:23:50 -0400 X-MC-Unique: pH5Q9KJhP1ir3ra_jwaTlg-1 Received: by mail-ot1-f70.google.com with SMTP id a3so1475425otf.8 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HjxFHndoo5VUha/f0J2Qhspp+zsrHL4Q9bSPbhWoUxA=; b=jf5m3VntM5S+1/ICBQrwHA5ELfWFsDyZOEqZbu68stOnnplKf6hw38thTLoS0x5waq 6gIo1g49mJgs5yko6lF0vB1jU2Dy9+OeTh+UtjjcjrKs15NuofwXtqO62UWXCZ4YUQDb Y00jcIv/x+grQO7l3cfo1RjFba70+7uqdiENYHo/nMOgZsGoKy3mxUlFq+O+0lzWqfDj KKY1NmVvkSbNrq6fK6Ih0rCZTW4iOFRLzpWrKaM/mdtVaH6szq0+ntTE/KeNJjKKW2Gj C19K/1IkD0AYdyt8jdHC3xWg53aDD1Twa/MofpjQFehzzl9v+VYqPUISENvGlYauE93f T6tg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lsTHIDOhyOTG891VbA0q6WuuhAaLBYm33M5XPGkn1/6SbFZne 28aqsOEv+9vljFiEazCs14HtNCQz42nsy40S1AuAft5/Fio56NM5Utt5RHYr5ly9RGTw2Gos1cB HQR8bBxmcgRjJnlwDxTKfPV7pKOePXQKQ X-Received: by 2002:aca:d546:: with SMTP id m67mr1094945oig.5.1594841029227; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw18dWiSVhNR3I4QbvnvOWanQ+G1JUehL2ij8W2NtqgcG8+zZOnUsIpS69d1uSWugXhbvRGsrOGZksiWHjAQtA= X-Received: by 2002:aca:d546:: with SMTP id m67mr1094931oig.5.1594841028959; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:23:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200713220016.xy4n7c5uu3xs6dyk@lion.mk-sys.cz> <20200713154118.3a1edd66@hermes.lan> In-Reply-To: From: Jarod Wilson Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:23:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC] bonding driver terminology change proposal To: Edward Cree Cc: Stephen Hemminger , Michal Kubecek , Netdev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: netdev-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:57 AM Edward Cree wrote: > > Once again, the opinions below are my own and definitely do not > represent anything my employer would be seen dead in the same > room as. > > On 13/07/2020 23:41, Stephen Hemminger wrote: > > As far as userspace, maybe keep the old API's but provide deprecation n= ags. > Why would you need to deprecate the old APIs? > If the user echoes 'slave' into some sysfs file (or whatever), that > indicates that they don't have any problem with using the word. > So there's no reason toever remove that support =E2=80=94 its _mere > existence_ isn't problematic for anyone not actively seeking to be > offended. > Which I think is more evidence that this change is not motivated by > practical concerns but by a kind of performative ritual purity. > > This is dumb. I suspect you all, including Jarod, know that this > is dumb, but you're either going along with it or keeping your > head down in the hope that it will all blow over and you can go > back to normal. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that; the > activists who push this stuff are never satisfied; making > concessions to them results not in peace but in further demands; > and just as the corporations today are caving to the current > demands for fear of being singled out by the mob, so they will > cave again to the next round of demands, and you'll be back in > the same position, trying to deal with bosses wanting you to > break uAPI without even a technical reason. > And next time around, the mob will be bolder and the bosses more > pliant, because by giving in this time we'll have signalled that > we're weak and easily dominated. I would advise anyone still in > doubt of this point to read Kipling's poem "Dane-geld". > And we'll all be left wondering why kernel development is so > soulless and joyless that no-one, of _any_ colour, aspires to > become a kernel hacker any more. > > It's not too late to stop the crazy, if we all just stop > pretending it's sane. No, it isn't a practical code concern motivating this change, it's actually quite impractical from a code standpoint and has no technical merit. I understand your position, but having seen many emotional responses to issues surrounding this, I think it's a worthwhile effort that many people actually do appreciate. Even if I'm not personally offended by the terminology, as a white male, I don't think I possess the life experiences to downplay the negative impact ongoing use of terms like "slave" might have on people that are actual descendants of slavery. Embracing and helping move forward social change seems like a responsible thing to do here, as long as we can do it without breaking the kernel and UAPI. --=20 Jarod Wilson jarod@redhat.com