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[146.241.249.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n18-20020a05600c501200b004146bdce3fesm5056095wmr.4.2024.03.21.03.31.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 21 Mar 2024 03:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: Regarding UDP-Lite deprecation and removal From: Paolo Abeni To: Lynne , Florian Westphal Cc: Netdev , Kuniyu , Willemdebruijn Kernel Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:31:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Autocrypt: addr=pabeni@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=mQINBGISiDUBEAC5uMdJicjm3ZlWQJG4u2EU1EhWUSx8IZLUTmEE8zmjPJFSYDcjtfGcbzLPb63BvX7FADmTOkO7gwtDgm501XnQaZgBUnCOUT8qv5MkKsFH20h1XJyqjPeGM55YFAXc+a4WD0YyO5M0+KhDeRLoildeRna1ey944VlZ6Inf67zMYw9vfE5XozBtytFIrRyGEWkQwkjaYhr1cGM8ia24QQVQid3P7SPkR78kJmrT32sGk+TdR4YnZzBvVaojX4AroZrrAQVdOLQWR+w4w1mONfJvahNdjq73tKv51nIpu4SAC1Zmnm3x4u9r22mbMDr0uWqDqwhsvkanYmn4umDKc1ZkBnDIbbumd40x9CKgG6ogVlLYeJa9WyfVMOHDF6f0wRjFjxVoPO6p/ZDkuEa67KCpJnXNYipLJ3MYhdKWBZw0xc3LKiKc+nMfQlo76T/qHMDfRMaMhk+L8gWc3ZlRQFG0/Pd1pdQEiRuvfM5DUXDo/YOZLV0NfRFU9SmtIPhbdm9cV8Hf8mUwubihiJB/9zPvVq8xfiVbdT0sPzBtxW0fXwrbFxYAOFvT0UC2MjlIsukjmXOUJtdZqBE3v3Jf7VnjNVj9P58+MOx9iYo8jl3fNd7biyQWdPDfYk9ncK8km4skfZQIoUVqrWqGDJjHO1W9CQLAxkfOeHrmG29PK9tHIwARAQABtB9QYW9sbyBBYmVuaSA8cGFiZW5pQHJlZGhhdC5jb20+iQJSBBMBCAA8FiEEg1AjqC77wbdLX2LbKSR5jcyPE6QFAmISiDUCGwMFCwkIBwIDIgIBBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4HAheAAAoJECkkeY3MjxOkJSYQAJcc6MTsuFxYdYZkeWjW//zbD3ApRHzpNlHLVSuJqHr9/aDS+tyszgS8jj9MiqALzgq4iZbg 7ZxN9ZsDL38qVIuFkSpgMZCiUHdxBC11J8nbBSLlpnc924UAyr5XrGA99 6Wl5I4Km3128GY6iAkH54pZpOmpoUyBjcxbJWHstzmvyiXrjA2sMzYjt3Xkqp0cJfIEekOi75wnNPofEEJg28XPcFrpkMUFFvB4Aqrdc2yyR8Y36rbw18sIX3dJdomIP3dL7LoJi9mfUKOnr86Z0xltgcLPGYoCiUZMlXyWgB2IPmmcMP2jLJrusICjZxLYJJLofEjznAJSUEwB/3rlvFrSYvkKkVmfnfro5XEr5nStVTECxfy7RTtltwih85LlZEHP8eJWMUDj3P4Q9CWNgz2pWr1t68QuPHWaA+PrXyasDlcRpRXHZCOcvsKhAaCOG8TzCrutOZ5NxdfXTe3f1jVIEab7lNgr+7HiNVS+UPRzmvBc73DAyToKQBn9kC4jh9HoWyYTepjdcxnio0crmara+/HEyRZDQeOzSexf85I4dwxcdPKXv0fmLtxrN57Ae82bHuRlfeTuDG3x3vl/Bjx4O7Lb+oN2BLTmgpYq7V1WJPUwikZg8M+nvDNcsOoWGbU417PbHHn3N7yS0lLGoCCWyrK1OY0QM4EVsL3TjOfUtCNQYW9sbyBBYmVuaSA8cGFvbG8uYWJlbmlAZ21haWwuY29tPokCUgQTAQgAPBYhBINQI6gu+8G3S19i2ykkeY3MjxOkBQJiEoitAhsDBQsJCAcCAyICAQYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgAAKCRApJHmNzI8TpBzHD/45pUctaCnhee1vkQnmStAYvHmwrWwIEH1lzDMDCpJQHTUQOOJWDAZOFnE/67bxSS81Wie0OKW2jvg1ylmpBA0gPpnzIExQmfP72cQ1TBoeVColVT6Io35BINn+ymM7c0Bn8RvngSEpr3jBtqvvWXjvtnJ5/HbOVQCg62NC6ewosoKJPWpGXMJ9SKsVIOUHsmoWK60spzeiJoSmAwm3zTJQnM5kRh2q iWjoCy8L35zPqR5TV+f5WR5hTVCqmLHSgm1jxwKhPg9L+GfuE4d0SWd84y 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 sD2W1U7eyLdm/jCgticGDsRtweytsgCSYfbz0gdgUuL3EBYN3JLbAU+UZpy 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 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.4 (3.50.4-1.fc39) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Mon, 2024-03-18 at 18:58 +0100, Lynne wrote: > Mar 18, 2024, 14:18 by fw@strlen.de: >=20 > > Lynne wrote: > >=20 > > > UDP-Lite was scheduled to be removed in 2025 in commit > > > be28c14ac8bbe1ff due to a lack of real-world users, and > > > a long-outstanding security bug being left undiscovered. > > >=20 > > > I would like to open a discussion to perhaps either avoid this, > > > or delay it, conditionally. > > >=20 > >=20 > > Is there any evidence UDP-Lite works in practice? > >=20 > > I am not aware of any HW that will peek into L3/L4 payload to figure ou= t > > that the 'udplite' payload should be passed up even though it has bad c= sum. > >=20 > > So, AFAIU L2 FCS/CRC essentially renders entire 'partial csum' premise = moot, > > stack will never receive udplite frames that are damaged. > >=20 > > Did things change? > >=20 >=20 > I do somehow get CRC errors past the Ethernet layer on consumer rtl cards= , > by default, with no ethtool changes, so maybe things did change. >=20 > I haven't sacrificed a good cable yet to get a definitive proof. > The cargo-culted way to be sure is to enable rx-all. I did not consider the mac-level csum - thanks Florian for bringing that up. Yes, you can disable FCS checking on the local host - for some NIC at least - and AFAIK that is the only way to receive csum corrupted packets.=C2=A0Delivery packets with bad FCS without F_RXALL set would be a bug. And you need to set F_RXALL on all the intermediate hops. All in all, the use-case looks very thin at best. In any case, to step-in to maintain a specific protocol you should start first contributing. I *guess* a reasonable good start would be implementing UDP-lite selftests. Cheers, Paolo