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From: Pablo Neira Ayuso <pablo@netfilter.org>
To: Phil Sutter <phil@nwl.cc>, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [iptables PATCH v3 04/11] nft-cache: Introduce cache levels
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 12:00:53 +0200
Message-ID: <20191014100053.ioovsw2w6pyhzxtb@salvia> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20191011112452.GS12661@orbyte.nwl.cc>

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 01:24:52PM +0200, Phil Sutter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 11:28:23AM +0200, Pablo Neira Ayuso wrote:
> [...]
> > You could also just parse the ruleset twice in userspace, once to
> > calculate the cache you need and another to actually create the
> > transaction batch and push it into the kernel. That's a bit poor man
> > approach, but it might work. You would need to invoke
> > xtables_restore_parse() twice.
> 
> The problem with parsing twice is having to cache input which may be
> huge for xtables-restore.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 12:20:52PM +0200, Pablo Neira Ayuso wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 12:09:11AM +0200, Phil Sutter wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Maybe we could go with a simpler solution for now, which is to check
> > > kernel genid again and drop the local cache if it differs from what's
> > > stored. If it doesn't, the current cache is still up to date and we may
> > > just fetch what's missing. Or does that leave room for a race condition?
> > 
> > My concern with this approach is that, in the dynamic ruleset update
> > scenarios, assuming very frequent updates, you might lose race when
> > building the cache in stages. Hence, forcing you to restart from
> > scratch in the middle of the transaction handling.
> 
> In a very busy environment there's always trouble, simply because we
> can't atomically fetch ruleset from kernel and adjust and submit our
> batch. Dealing with that means we're back at xtables-lock.
> 
> > I prefer to calculate the cache that is needed in one go by analyzing
> > the batch, it's simpler. Note that we might lose race still since
> > kernel might tell us we're working on an obsolete generation number ID
> > cache, forcing us to restart.
> 
> My idea for conditional cache reset is based on the assumption that
> conflicts are rare and we want to optimize for non-conflict case. So
> core logic would be:
> 
> 1) fetch kernel genid into genid_start
> 2) if cache level > NFT_CL_NONE and cache genid != genid_start:
>    2a) drop local caches
>    2b) set cache level to NFT_CL_NONE
> 3) call cache fetchers based on cache level and desired level
> 4) fetch kernel genid into genid_end
> 5) if genid_start != genid_end goto 1
> 
> So this is basically the old algorithm but with (2) added. What do you
> think?

Please, make testcases to validate that races don't happen. Debugging
cache inconsistencies is not easy, that's why I like the idea of
calculating the cache first, then build it in one go. I'm fine with
starting with a more simple approach in the short term. Note that
reports from users on these cache inconsistency problems are usually
sparse, which is usually a bit frustrating. I understand a larger
rework might to accomodate the more simple approach will take more
time.

  reply index

Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-10-08 16:14 [iptables PATCH v3 00/11] Improve iptables-nft performance with large rulesets Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 01/11] nft: Pass nft_handle to flush_cache() Phil Sutter
2019-10-09  9:30   ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 02/11] nft: Avoid nested cache fetching Phil Sutter
2019-10-09  9:30   ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 03/11] nft: Extract cache routines into nft-cache.c Phil Sutter
2019-10-09  9:32   ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 04/11] nft-cache: Introduce cache levels Phil Sutter
2019-10-09  9:37   ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-09 10:29     ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-10 22:09       ` Phil Sutter
2019-10-11  9:28         ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-11 11:24           ` Phil Sutter
2019-10-14 10:00             ` Pablo Neira Ayuso [this message]
2019-10-11 10:20         ` Pablo Neira Ayuso
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 05/11] nft-cache: Fetch only chains in nft_chain_list_get() Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 06/11] nft-cache: Cover for multiple fetcher invocation Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 07/11] nft-cache: Support partial cache per table Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 08/11] nft-cache: Support partial rule cache per chain Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 09/11] nft: Reduce cache overhead of nft_chain_builtin_init() Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 10/11] nft: Support nft_is_table_compatible() per chain Phil Sutter
2019-10-08 16:14 ` [iptables PATCH v3 11/11] nft: Optimize flushing all chains of a table Phil Sutter

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