From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B10CA9ECB for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 01:02:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD842083E for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 01:02:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728990AbfKABCp (ORCPT ); Thu, 31 Oct 2019 21:02:45 -0400 Received: from mail105.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.249]:48072 "EHLO mail105.syd.optusnet.com.au" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727455AbfKABCp (ORCPT ); Thu, 31 Oct 2019 21:02:45 -0400 Received: from dimstar.local.net (n122-110-44-45.sun2.vic.optusnet.com.au [122.110.44.45]) by mail105.syd.optusnet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id E40863A2BD0 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:02:25 +1100 (AEDT) Received: (qmail 23327 invoked by uid 501); 1 Nov 2019 01:02:25 -0000 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:02:25 +1100 From: Duncan Roe To: Steve Grubb Cc: Richard Guy Briggs , Paul Moore , containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, Linux-Audit Mailing List , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, LKML , netdev@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, omosnace@redhat.com, dhowells@redhat.com, simo@redhat.com, Eric Paris , Serge Hallyn , ebiederm@xmission.com, nhorman@tuxdriver.com, Dan Walsh , mpatel@redhat.com Subject: Re: [PATCH ghak90 V7 20/21] audit: add capcontid to set contid outside init_user_ns Message-ID: <20191101010225.GC18955@dimstar.local.net> Mail-Followup-To: Steve Grubb , Richard Guy Briggs , Paul Moore , containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, Linux-Audit Mailing List , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, LKML , netdev@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, omosnace@redhat.com, dhowells@redhat.com, simo@redhat.com, Eric Paris , Serge Hallyn , ebiederm@xmission.com, nhorman@tuxdriver.com, Dan Walsh , mpatel@redhat.com References: <20191030220320.tnwkaj5gbzchcn7j@madcap2.tricolour.ca> <3677995.NTHC7m0fHc@x2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3677995.NTHC7m0fHc@x2> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Optus-CM-Score: 0 X-Optus-CM-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=D+Q3ErZj c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=4DzML1vCOQ6Odsy8BUtSXQ==:117 a=4DzML1vCOQ6Odsy8BUtSXQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=MeAgGD-zjQ4A:10 a=wokOCyRbhw6_iYDWPRUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 Sender: netfilter-devel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:50:57AM -0400, Steve Grubb wrote: > Hello, > > TLDR; I see a lot of benefit to switching away from procfs for setting auid & > sessionid. > > On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 6:03:20 PM EDT Richard Guy Briggs wrote: > > > Also, for the record, removing the audit loginuid from procfs is not > > > something to take lightly, if at all; like it or not, it's part of the > > > kernel API. > > It can also be used by tools to iterate processes related to one user or > session. I use this in my Intrusion Prevention System which will land in > audit user space at some point in the future. > > > > Oh, I'm quite aware of how important this change is and it was discussed > > with Steve Grubb who saw the concern and value of considering such a > > disruptive change. > > Actually, I advocated for syscall. I think the gist of Eric's idea was that / > proc is the intersection of many nasty problems. By relying on it, you can't > simplify the API to reduce the complexity. Almost no program actually needs ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ > access to /proc. ps does. But almost everything else is happy without it. For > ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ Eh?? *top* needs /proc/ps, as do most of the programs in package procps-ng. Then there's lsof, pgrep (which doesn't fail but can't find anything) and even lilo (for Slackware ;) > example, when you setup chroot jails, you may have to add /dev/random or / > dev/null, but almost never /proc. What does force you to add /proc is any > entry point daemon like sshd because it needs to set the loginuid. If we > switch away from /proc, then sshd or crond will no longer /require/ procfs to > be available which again simplifies the system design. > > > > Removing proc support for auid/ses would be a > > long-term deprecation if accepted. > > It might need to just be turned into readonly for a while. But then again, > perhaps auid and session should be part of /proc//status? Maybe this can > be done independently and ahead of the container work so there is a migration > path for things that read auid or session. TBH, maybe this should have been > done from the beginning. > > -Steve > Cheers ... Duncan.