From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EC2C433E0 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:39:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44459206D4 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:39:47 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 44459206D4 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:57478 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuCPp-00006w-TE for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:39:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33794) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuCOa-000873-26 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:38:28 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([216.205.24.124]:39280) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuCOX-0000ID-9S for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:38:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1609238301; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=KdrRxXV7xr6QyeSwnYjvY4hQTOEX19FGLgjsRrwJ4HE=; b=Aho6A+kgfSURQjZNNfs357KUGm60yZ2zKNJtj0pzlKCYhzlLiuQC51+CfCOohz/Rg+imsQ 8dddW71QpND84TBzyGY1d0KhzW5HR1nGMmJUPEMYQOxz6+V3+cjie+CLYTYmHqJgAGkcKL Jbo0r9Fl5OjlkxnZVqzI1oEABCMGONs= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-403-NTifcPg0NPGh-qqgrL2iJQ-1; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:38:17 -0500 X-MC-Unique: NTifcPg0NPGh-qqgrL2iJQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 463741005504; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thuth.remote.csb (ovpn-112-109.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.112.109]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB37971C8B; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:38:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Deprecation of the LM32 target To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , QEMU Developers References: <49c3d04e-a94c-cf77-4df9-5ceb8c9c7f80@physik.fu-berlin.de> <86690c16-3bc9-9c77-f720-64db14d0cf72@redhat.com> From: Thomas Huth Message-ID: <559bbdfa-3876-ab22-445f-4bb59d9b4979@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 11:38:13 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.16 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=thuth@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.205.24.124; envelope-from=thuth@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -56 X-Spam_score: -5.7 X-Spam_bar: ----- X-Spam_report: (-5.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.178, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-2.698, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Peter Maydell , Michael Walle Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 26/12/2020 10.06, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > Hello! > > On 12/26/20 9:39 AM, Thomas Huth wrote: >> the problem is not that the target CPU is old, but rather that according to the (former?) maintainer, there are no users left: >> >> https://www.mail-archive.com/qemu-devel@nongnu.org/msg605024.html >> >> So it got marked as deprecated in this commit here: >> >> https://git.qemu.org/?p=qemu.git;a=commitdiff;h=d84980051229fa43c96b3 >> >> Without maintainer and without users, there is no point in keeping this target, is there? > > I'm not sure how you determine whether there are people using the code or not. There > is no really user tracking in QEMU, is there? > > And the maintainer's claim that RISC-V takes over makes no sense either. The point of > emulators is to be able to run old and existing software. If a target had only a > justification to exist while it's commercially viable, you would have to remove 90% > of the targets in QEMU. > > I mean, the whole point of an emulator is being able to run existing code on modern hardware, > usually because the old hardware is no longer available. And as long as the target is > functional, I don't see a point in taking away the functionality. You also have to consider that it takes some effort to keep code up to date, e.g. if there is a bigger restructuring of the code base going on, you also have to work on neglected targets, too. If there is no active maintainer left anymore, it's quite a burden for all the other developers. So if there is no known user left (are *you* using lm32?), and there is no active maintainer anymore, it's IMHO adequate to mark a target as deprecated. If someone still wants to run old lm32 code, they still can use older versions of QEMU to do this. Thomas