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From: Guy Harris <guy-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/>
To: ""
Cc: Simon Barber <>,
	Richard Sharpe
	Johannes Berg <>
Subject: Re: Correct radiotap header for 802.11ad
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:25:02 -0700
Message-ID: <> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <126B842D-05EA-4510-BC9B-DB1A4AABEC12-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/>

On Aug 26, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Guy Harris <guy-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Simon Barber <> wrote:
>> The HT and VHT fields are missing various bits of phy layer info, and are defined missing enough bits for other fields. I've always thought It would be much simpler if these fields could convey the whole SIGNAL bits from the PLCP header, along with a mask in case it's not all available. The drivers I've seen have the whole PLCP SIGNAL field available.
> So that's the L-SIG bits from "L-SIG definition"


> and either the HT-SIG bits from "HT-SIG definition"


	the MCS index

	CBW 20/40

	HT Length


	Not Sounding

	Aggregation (PPDU contains an A-MPDU)


	FEC coding

	Short GI


	CRC of the bits

	Tail Bits

The ones that aren't in the MCS field or the A-MPDU field are:

	HT Length - is that just the length of the data following the radiotap header?


	Not Sounding

	CRC - is this of any interest?

	Tail Bits - always 0, so these are presumably not of interest


	whether "20" means "20", "20L", or "20U";

	HT mixed vs. greenfield;

both of which are available from the MCS field, be determined from the PLCP header?

Or is what "20" means not fully determinable for received packets, so that "20L", "20U", and "40" are indistinguishable, similar to what the Radiotap spec for the VHT field says? "HT-greenfield format HT-SIG" says "The content and format of the HT-SIG of an HT-greenfield format frame is identical to the HT-SIG in an HT-mixed format frame, as described in", so if that information can be determined for received frames, it sounds as if greenfield vs. mixed *can't* be determined from the HT-SIG bits.

> or the VHT-SIG-A bits from 11ac's "VHT-SIG-A definition" and the VHT-SIG-B bits from 11ac's "VHT-SIG-B definition"?




	Group ID

	NSTS/Partial AID


	Short GI

	Short GI NSYM Disambiguation

	SU/MU[0] Coding

	LDPC Extra OFDM Symbol

	SU VHT-MCS/MU[1-3] Coding



	Tail Bits

The ones that aren't in the MCS field are:

	CRC - is this of any interest?

	Tail Bits - always 0, so these are presumably not of interest

The spec for the VHT field says that NSTS "can be calculated from the NSS for that user and the STBC flag" and that, for received frames, the only bandwidth information you get is 20/40/80/160, which is presumably what you can get from BW.

For *transmitted* frames, I guess you have more control over how it's transmitted, which is presumably why there's a VHT field rather than just a PLCP header field.

I.e., as radiotap is used for transmission, it needs to include at least some of the parameters to the PHY service's transmission operation, which may not be available in the PLCP header.

> And for 11ad, would it be the bits from "General"?


	Scrambler Initialization - probably not of interest


	Length - is this just the length of the data following the radiotap header?

	Additional PPDU

	Packet Type

	Training Length

	Aggregation (PPDU contains an A-MPDU)

	Beam Tracking Request

	Tone Pairing Type

	DTP Indicator

	Last RSSI


	HCS (a CRC)

So do we need all of those?

And is there anything more that would be needed for *injected* 11ad frames?  If so, that's an argument for a "DMG" field containing the interesting information from the PLCP header combined with information necessary for injected frames?

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-08-22 19:41 Richard Sharpe
     [not found] ` <>
2015-08-22 20:59   ` Guy Harris
     [not found]     ` <38F46E1D-1C4A-48DC-A906-9522006E8474-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/>
2015-08-22 22:06       ` Richard Sharpe
     [not found]         ` <>
2015-08-22 22:24           ` Guy Harris
2015-08-22 23:34       ` Guy Harris
     [not found]         ` <1606812C-649C-4C06-ABE0-AE2F4474BCD0-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/>
2015-08-24  7:40           ` Johannes Berg
     [not found]             ` <>
2015-08-24 16:21               ` Richard Sharpe
     [not found]                 ` <>
2015-08-24 16:28                   ` Johannes Berg
2015-08-26 22:59                   ` Simon Barber
     [not found]                     ` <>
2015-08-27  1:17                       ` Guy Harris
     [not found]                         ` <126B842D-05EA-4510-BC9B-DB1A4AABEC12-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/>
2015-09-10 18:25                           ` Guy Harris [this message]
     [not found]                             ` <1135A126-6A5A-4C84-A52D-13C0387609CC-FrUbXkNCsVf2fBVCVOL8/>
2015-09-17 16:37                               ` Johannes Berg
2019-12-10 23:51                                 ` Guy Harris
2019-12-11  8:32                                   ` Johannes Berg
2019-12-11  9:39                                     ` Krishna Chaitanya
2019-12-11 12:57                                       ` Johannes Berg
2019-12-11 13:20                                         ` Krishna Chaitanya
2019-12-20 21:56                                     ` Guy Harris
2015-09-17 16:32                       ` Johannes Berg
2015-08-26 22:56       ` Simon Barber

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