Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Oleksij Rempel]

Hallo all,


> http://www.radiotap.org/suggested-fields/MCS%20extension%20for%20STBC%20and%20Ness
>
> I have posted 3 patches on the proposal page (see Attachments):
>
> 1. A patch that applies to the Linux kernel v3.7-rc1 to collect the new
> STBC and Ness parameters from a wireless driver, and add them into the
> MCS radiotap field.
> 2. A patch to the Intel wireless driver in the kernel to collect STBC
> and Ness information.
> 3. A patch to wireshark to display STBC and Ness information.
>
> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
> comment period.

There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
Are there any thing needed to finish this?

Beside, i have one question about how STBC work. According to differnet 
docs, i assume that:
- STBC is done by sending, at least, two stream with same data in 
different order.
- It means for me, that real use of STBC can be made only on MIMO hardware.
- If 1x1 receiver indicates that it got STBC encoded frame, it dos not 
meant, it would be able to use redundant data from second stream.
- There are fallowing STBC schemes: Alamouti’s
STBC for 2 transmit antennas and orthogonal STBC for 3 and 4 transmit 
antennas.

According to this information, what do we call 1,2 or 3 stream STBC?
Since STBC should have minimal 2 stream, but in same time we have 1x1 
and 2x2 hardware which able to receive and decode STBC stream i assume:
	- RX-STBC1 is for compatibility only. No data redundancy.
	- RX-STBC12 - can be used Alamouti’s schema with 2 streams. Mostly used 
method.
	- RX-STBC123 - is orthogonal schema and not widely used method. Since 
last method use wide spectrum to transmit data comparable to SISO 
stream, it makes almost no sense. But 3-stream method get optimal error 
corect in compare with 2 and 4 strea schemas.

Do this assumptions correct?

PS: My assumptions based on "MIMO Space-Time Block Coding (STBC):
Simulations and Results"
-- 
Regards,
Oleksij

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Jonathan Bither]

On Tue 07 May 2013 11:03:32 AM EDT, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
> Am 07.05.2013 16:59, schrieb Jonathan Bither:
>>
>>
>> On 05/07/2013 09:55 AM, Johannes Berg wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 15:54 +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 09:40 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>>>>> Am 02.05.2013 22:44, schrieb Johannes Berg:
>>>>>> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
>>>>>>>> comment period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
>>>>>> separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> so it doesn't really matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this
>>>>>>> approved :)
>>>>>>> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> johannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ping.
>>>>>
>>>>> Johannes, are you the one who says last word on standardisation for
>>>>> radiotap?
>>>>
>>>> No? I thought the link made that pretty clear.
>>>>
>>>> But since nobody poked holes in this and it's been a long time, I
>>>> think
>>>> you should probably just post "this has been adopted now" ...
>>>
>>> Or actually, go to step 5, preferably reposting it as a separate
>>> thread.
>> It looks as if someone already proposed this as a suggested field on
>> '2012-05-14 23:49:35' without any replies as far as I can tell.
>> http://www.radiotap.org/suggested-fields/MCS%20extension%20for%20STBC%20and%20Ness
>>
>
> Yes, Simon did it last year. I send this link on my first email...
> In my opinion, this should be just ACKed. Every thing what was needed
> to do, is already done.
>

Whoops, one of those days I guess. Sorry for the noise.

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Oleksij Rempel]

Am 07.05.2013 16:59, schrieb Jonathan Bither:
>
>
> On 05/07/2013 09:55 AM, Johannes Berg wrote:
>> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 15:54 +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 09:40 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>>>> Am 02.05.2013 22:44, schrieb Johannes Berg:
>>>>> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
>>>>>>> comment period.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
>>>>> separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this
>>>>> list
>>>>> so it doesn't really matter.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this
>>>>>> approved :)
>>>>>> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation
>>>>>
>>>>> johannes
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ping.
>>>>
>>>> Johannes, are you the one who says last word on standardisation for
>>>> radiotap?
>>>
>>> No? I thought the link made that pretty clear.
>>>
>>> But since nobody poked holes in this and it's been a long time, I think
>>> you should probably just post "this has been adopted now" ...
>>
>> Or actually, go to step 5, preferably reposting it as a separate thread.
> It looks as if someone already proposed this as a suggested field on
> '2012-05-14 23:49:35' without any replies as far as I can tell.
> http://www.radiotap.org/suggested-fields/MCS%20extension%20for%20STBC%20and%20Ness

Yes, Simon did it last year. I send this link on my first email...
In my opinion, this should be just ACKed. Every thing what was needed to 
do, is already done.

-- 
Regards,
Oleksij

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Oleksij Rempel]

Am 07.05.2013 15:55, schrieb Johannes Berg:
> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 15:54 +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
>> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 09:40 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>>> Am 02.05.2013 22:44, schrieb Johannes Berg:
>>>> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
>>>>>> comment period.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
>>>> separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this list
>>>> so it doesn't really matter.
>>>>
>>>>> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
>>>>> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation
>>>>
>>>> johannes
>>>>
>>>
>>> ping.
>>>
>>> Johannes, are you the one who says last word on standardisation for
>>> radiotap?
>>
>> No? I thought the link made that pretty clear.
>>
>> But since nobody poked holes in this and it's been a long time, I think
>> you should probably just post "this has been adopted now" ...
>
> Or actually, go to step 5, preferably reposting it as a separate thread.


Simon,

will you do it? You stared it and did most of the work...


-- 
Regards,
Oleksij

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Johannes Berg]

On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 15:54 +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 09:40 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
> > Am 02.05.2013 22:44, schrieb Johannes Berg:
> > > On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
> > >
> > >>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
> > >>> comment period.
> > >
> > > Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
> > > separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this list
> > > so it doesn't really matter.
> > >
> > >> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
> > >> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
> > >
> > > http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation
> > >
> > > johannes
> > >
> > 
> > ping.
> > 
> > Johannes, are you the one who says last word on standardisation for 
> > radiotap?
> 
> No? I thought the link made that pretty clear.
> 
> But since nobody poked holes in this and it's been a long time, I think
> you should probably just post "this has been adopted now" ...

Or actually, go to step 5, preferably reposting it as a separate thread.

johannes

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Johannes Berg]

On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 09:40 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
> Am 02.05.2013 22:44, schrieb Johannes Berg:
> > On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
> >
> >>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
> >>> comment period.
> >
> > Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
> > separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this list
> > so it doesn't really matter.
> >
> >> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
> >> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
> >
> > http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation
> >
> > johannes
> >
> 
> ping.
> 
> Johannes, are you the one who says last word on standardisation for 
> radiotap?

No? I thought the link made that pretty clear.

But since nobody poked holes in this and it's been a long time, I think
you should probably just post "this has been adopted now" ...

johannes

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Oleksij Rempel]

Am 02.05.2013 22:44, schrieb Johannes Berg:
> On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
>
>>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
>>> comment period.
>
> Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
> separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this list
> so it doesn't really matter.
>
>> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
>> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
>
> http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation
>
> johannes
>

ping.

Johannes, are you the one who says last word on standardisation for 
radiotap?

-- 
Regards,
Oleksij

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Simon Barber]

I did post example code as attachments to the suggested-fields page a 
few months ago. Click on 'attachments' to view them. There are 3:

1. Intel wlan driver patch
2. Kernel patch
3. Wireshark patch.

Simon


On 05/01/2013 07:34 AM, Oleksij Rempel wrote:
> Hallo all,
>
>
>> http://www.radiotap.org/suggested-fields/MCS%20extension%20for%20STBC%20and%20Ness
>>
>>
>> I have posted 3 patches on the proposal page (see Attachments):
>>
>> 1. A patch that applies to the Linux kernel v3.7-rc1 to collect the new
>> STBC and Ness parameters from a wireless driver, and add them into the
>> MCS radiotap field.
>> 2. A patch to the Intel wireless driver in the kernel to collect STBC
>> and Ness information.
>> 3. A patch to wireshark to display STBC and Ness information.
>>
>> With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
>> comment period.
>
> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
> Are there any thing needed to finish this?
>
> Beside, i have one question about how STBC work. According to differnet
> docs, i assume that:
> - STBC is done by sending, at least, two stream with same data in
> different order.
> - It means for me, that real use of STBC can be made only on MIMO hardware.
> - If 1x1 receiver indicates that it got STBC encoded frame, it dos not
> meant, it would be able to use redundant data from second stream.
> - There are fallowing STBC schemes: Alamouti’s
> STBC for 2 transmit antennas and orthogonal STBC for 3 and 4 transmit
> antennas.
>
> According to this information, what do we call 1,2 or 3 stream STBC?
> Since STBC should have minimal 2 stream, but in same time we have 1x1
> and 2x2 hardware which able to receive and decode STBC stream i assume:
>      - RX-STBC1 is for compatibility only. No data redundancy.
>      - RX-STBC12 - can be used Alamouti’s schema with 2 streams. Mostly
> used method.
>      - RX-STBC123 - is orthogonal schema and not widely used method.
> Since last method use wide spectrum to transmit data comparable to SISO
> stream, it makes almost no sense. But 3-stream method get optimal error
> corect in compare with 2 and 4 strea schemas.
>
> Do this assumptions correct?
>
> PS: My assumptions based on "MIMO Space-Time Block Coding (STBC):
> Simulations and Results"

Re: Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Johannes Berg]

On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 16:34 +0200, Oleksij Rempel wrote:

> > With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
> > comment period.

Yeah, I guess there was plenty of time. I would have preferred a
separate thread, but I guess there's little enough traffic on this list
so it doesn't really matter.

> There is a bit more then 3 week now. I would like to have this approved :)
> Are there any thing needed to finish this?

http://www.radiotap.org/Standardisation

johannes

Standardisation - adding 2 bit STBC and Ness to MCS

[Simon Barber]

http://www.radiotap.org/suggested-fields/MCS%20extension%20for%20STBC%20and%20Ness

I have posted 3 patches on the proposal page (see Attachments):

1. A patch that applies to the Linux kernel v3.7-rc1 to collect the new
STBC and Ness parameters from a wireless driver, and add them into the
MCS radiotap field.
2. A patch to the Intel wireless driver in the kernel to collect STBC
and Ness information.
3. A patch to wireshark to display STBC and Ness information.

With this I believe we have everything needed to start the 3 week
comment period.

Simon Barber