Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[Helge Kreutzmann]

Dear util-linux maintainers.
the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
man pages both from a large variety of sources (including util-linux) as
well for a large variety of target languages.

During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a
convention not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the 
original.

We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
each and every issue.

Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
possible), but only an approximation which you need to convert into
your source format.

Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
them.

I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should 
use another channel, please let me know.

**

Man page: adjtime_config.5
Issue: Superfluous comma after "is"

"The format of the adjtime file is, in ASCII."

Greetings

           Helge

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Helge!

On 5/14/20 8:51 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should 
> use another channel, please let me know.

I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[Helge Kreutzmann]

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Hello Adrian,
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 09:20:07PM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 5/14/20 8:51 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> > I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should 
> > use another channel, please let me know.
> 
> I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
> request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
> manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.

Sorry, this won't be possible as stated in my long e-mail. 

However, in the future the number of changes should be (much!) lower,
as I don't think we wait another 10 years for reporting. 

And you can process them at your convenience, for us (translators)
there is no time pressure at all, many (formatting) issues are fixed
in the translation already.

Greetings

           Helge

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 5/14/20 9:42 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>> I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
>> request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
>> manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.
> 
> Sorry, this won't be possible as stated in my long e-mail. 

I haven't read that mail, but I don't understand what reason should prevent
anyone from sending a patch.

> However, in the future the number of changes should be (much!) lower,
> as I don't think we wait another 10 years for reporting. 
> 
> And you can process them at your convenience, for us (translators)
> there is no time pressure at all, many (formatting) issues are fixed
> in the translation already.

But how are the changes supposed to get into the git repository?

If you send something like 50 mails, someone has to sit down and edit
all these changes manually. I don't think anyone is going to do that,
it's just way too tedious.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[Michael Kerrisk]

Hello John,

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 9:20 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
<glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> Hello Helge!
>
> On 5/14/20 8:51 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> > I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should
> > use another channel, please let me know.
>
> I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
> request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
> manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.

Well, yes, but see
https://lore.kernel.org/util-linux/CAKgNAkgqKs=Q4qvPHirHa6KjW3qOqyyNG7sCxHX2RfWiOBqRbg@mail.gmail.com/

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 5/14/20 10:09 PM, Michael Kerrisk wrote:
>> On 5/14/20 8:51 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>>> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should
>>> use another channel, please let me know.
>>
>> I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
>> request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
>> manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.
> 
> Well, yes, but see
> https://lore.kernel.org/util-linux/CAKgNAkgqKs=Q4qvPHirHa6KjW3qOqyyNG7sCxHX2RfWiOBqRbg@mail.gmail.com/

Doesn't convince, me really. I don't think it's too much to ask for to
read the documentation of git and then create a set of patches.

I wouldn't accept such mass mails for my own projects, it's just way too
much work to import all these changes manually. And I also haven't seen
any other project do that in the past 20 years, so I'm not sure how successful
this strategy is.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)]

Hello John,

On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 22:15, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
<glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> On 5/14/20 10:09 PM, Michael Kerrisk wrote:
> >> On 5/14/20 8:51 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >>> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should
> >>> use another channel, please let me know.
> >>
> >> I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
> >> request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
> >> manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.
> >
> > Well, yes, but see
> > https://lore.kernel.org/util-linux/CAKgNAkgqKs=Q4qvPHirHa6KjW3qOqyyNG7sCxHX2RfWiOBqRbg@mail.gmail.com/
>
> Doesn't convince, me really. I don't think it's too much to ask for to
> read the documentation of git and then create a set of patches.

Yes, but probably the work for Helge to do that is a factor of
*several* times the work of someone with commit access doing the
manual edits.

> I wouldn't accept such mass mails for my own projects, it's just way too
> much work to import all these changes manually.

I agree. It's a pain.

> And I also haven't seen
> any other project do that in the past 20 years, so I'm not sure how successful
> this strategy is.

I'm not sure how successful it will be either. But, one project just
did what you haven't seen in the past 20 years, just last month :-).

Cheers,

Michael

-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

Re: Errors in util-linux man pages, here: adjtime_config.5: Wording

[Karel Zak]

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:15:47PM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 5/14/20 10:09 PM, Michael Kerrisk wrote:
> >> On 5/14/20 8:51 PM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >>> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. If future reports should
> >>> use another channel, please let me know.
> >>
> >> I think you should send your changes as patches, preferably with a git pull
> >> request as the current form of submitting these changes requires a lot of
> >> manual editing due to the large number of changes involved.
> > 
> > Well, yes, but see
> > https://lore.kernel.org/util-linux/CAKgNAkgqKs=Q4qvPHirHa6KjW3qOqyyNG7sCxHX2RfWiOBqRbg@mail.gmail.com/
> 
> Doesn't convince, me really. I don't think it's too much to ask for to
> read the documentation of git and then create a set of patches.

Helge's way provides opportunity for other mailing list members to
contribute :-) 

> I wouldn't accept such mass mails for my own projects, it's just way too
> much work to import all these changes manually. And I also haven't seen
> any other project do that in the past 20 years, so I'm not sure how successful
> this strategy is.

Sharing is caring ... better report bugs than ignore.

    Karel

-- 
 Karel Zak  <kzak@redhat.com>
 http://karelzak.blogspot.com