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[192.0.228.88]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 207sm11061879qkh.33.2019.10.08.12.05.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Oct 2019 12:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 15:05:27 -0400 From: Konstantin Ryabitsev To: Don Zickus Cc: Steven Rostedt , Daniel Axtens , David Miller , sir@cmpwn.com, nhorman@tuxdriver.com, workflows@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: thoughts on a Merge Request based development workflow Message-ID: <20191008190527.hprv53vhzvrvdnhm@chatter.i7.local> References: <20190924182536.GC6041@hmswarspite.think-freely.org> <20191007.173329.2182256975398971437.davem@davemloft.net> <87zhicqhzg.fsf@dja-thinkpad.axtens.net> <20191007211704.6b555bb1@oasis.local.home> <20191008164309.mddbouqmbqipx2sx@redhat.com> <20191008131730.4da4c9c5@gandalf.local.home> <20191008173902.jbkzrqrwg43szgyz@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20191008173902.jbkzrqrwg43szgyz@redhat.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Sender: workflows-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 01:39:02PM -0400, Don Zickus wrote: >Regardless, I think what you wrote re-enforces the idea that emailing a >patch series (and their vX followups) is messy for the maintainer and a >more evolved idea is to let a forge take git-push as input. I'm pretty opposed to the idea of forges, because this approach makes it very easy to knock out infrastructure critical to the project's ability to quickly roll out fixes. Imagine a situation where there's a zero-day remote root kernel exploit -- the attackers would be interested in ensuring that it remains unpatched for as long as possible, so we can imagine that they will target any central infrastructure where a fix can be developed and posted. Currently, such an attack would be ineffective because even if kernel.org is knocked out entirely, collaboration will still happen directly over email between maintainers and Linus, and a fix can be posted on any number of worldwide resources -- as long as it carries Linus's signature, it will be trusted. If we switch to require a central forge, then knocking out that resource will require that maintainers and developers scramble to find some kind of backup channel (like falling back to email). And if we're still falling back to email, then we're not really solving the larger underlying problem of "what should we use instead of email." We also shouldn't forget trigger-happy governments that like to ban troves of IP addresses in their chase after "the safe internet." Github has already been banned a couple of times in China and Russia, and chances are that this will continue. This doesn't mean that forges are entirely out -- but they must remain mere tools that participate in a globally decentralized, developer-attestable, self-archiving messaging service. Maybe let's call that "kernel developer bus" or "kdbus" -- pretty sure that name hasn't been used before. -K