From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537FBC2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.xenproject.org (lists.xenproject.org [192.237.175.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05BA820665 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:06 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 05BA820665 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Received: from list by lists.xenproject.org with outflank-mailman.34851.66098 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1khElt-0007jf-Cm; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 X-Outflank-Mailman: Message body and most headers restored to incoming version Received: by outflank-mailman (output) from mailman id 34851.66098; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 X-BeenThere: xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org List-Id: Xen developer discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Precedence: list Sender: "Xen-devel" Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1khElt-0007jY-9b; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 Received: by outflank-mailman (input) for mailman id 34851; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 Received: from all-amaz-eas1.inumbo.com ([34.197.232.57] helo=us1-amaz-eas2.inumbo.com) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1khElr-0007jT-VS for xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (unknown [216.40.44.163]) by us1-amaz-eas2.inumbo.com (Halon) with ESMTPS id a6d61e26-9f67-4593-84c8-ad8ad8de68bf; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from all-amaz-eas1.inumbo.com ([34.197.232.57] helo=us1-amaz-eas2.inumbo.com) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1khElr-0007jT-VS for xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 X-Inumbo-ID: a6d61e26-9f67-4593-84c8-ad8ad8de68bf Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (unknown [216.40.44.163]) by us1-amaz-eas2.inumbo.com (Halon) with ESMTPS id a6d61e26-9f67-4593-84c8-ad8ad8de68bf; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above.