From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDC0C4332B for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:55:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.xenproject.org (lists.xenproject.org [192.237.175.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FF4F20663 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:55:57 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="2jQYZjex" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0FF4F20663 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jEvdT-00042O-9s; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:54:59 +0000 Received: from us1-rack-iad1.inumbo.com ([172.99.69.81]) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1jEvdQ-00042J-Gt for xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:54:58 +0000 X-Inumbo-ID: 35d7755c-69e9-11ea-a6c1-bc764e2007e4 Received: from merlin.infradead.org (unknown [2001:8b0:10b:1231::1]) by us1-rack-iad1.inumbo.com (Halon) with ESMTPS id 35d7755c-69e9-11ea-a6c1-bc764e2007e4; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:54:54 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Mime-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=y7+inO+FdkPWot0TaZqZP+K1EH+KtfvkpODSGACVNtI=; b=2jQYZjexxWtVC50//oT2Xfmsoq 3ELSUBP3k2b7anRu7tkMQuLo42RFID2dvV8uwpMOzLix3TaDAlQHIhTNtOTNa1QMZt8S/iOiDyCph mZPfvZ2Hle3oncMRwN7h1f8qURH8K9elPWE6In5BTF5Cc39/UGBJICqzgK1oAsrpXbqaVzOcbJ2/W l6hTw+u8VScADu/6tC8ezMofTg5TYAzvLKlh7YA2yAL55wyxFbY/S34a8pHjCCt4vMS2aR6Wo5pSM B0CNeYY3/SVigiThDiGCyQsYzVO8yFYZyAzEXb/9488jrs18pPxe8QziyVt855bQcxca4Qqz2Ac1Y BZ3yxBow==; Received: from [54.239.6.187] (helo=u3832b3a9db3152.ant.amazon.com) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1jEvd0-0008Qp-8R; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:54:30 +0000 Message-ID: <59ee24e1b9190c59b976b559a83ede5cc96c3d03.camel@infradead.org> From: David Woodhouse To: Jan Beulich Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 13:54:27 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <56f7fe21daff2dc4bf8db7ee356666233bdb0f7a.camel@infradead.org> <20200207155701.2781820-1-dwmw2@infradead.org> <641040a4aebc62e1e0e3874f513e3a308ec3ace0.camel@infradead.org> <9b0d191e-2553-6368-84d6-8425abe23c39@suse.com> <6b41e45f-fc91-3a9f-20f8-28d66604adec@xen.org> <304d502011075fdda6d00a2393bf9cfd8fde68bc.camel@infradead.org> <9b0363ea-ad62-c0d9-700a-fa0107642f3b@suse.com> <4a1504117e7422a685ed2fec2b97bb15a0e1bf29.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by merlin.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] [PATCH 1/2] xen/mm: fold PGC_broken into PGC_state bits X-BeenThere: xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Xen developer discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Stefano Stabellini , Julien Grall , Wei Liu , Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , George Dunlap , Andrew Cooper , Ian Jackson , George Dunlap , Jeff Kubascik , Stewart Hildebrand , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8926431262443111904==" Errors-To: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Sender: "Xen-devel" --===============8926431262443111904== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-ynJz0RtDUKtRtXaZ0f9E" --=-ynJz0RtDUKtRtXaZ0f9E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2020-03-19 at 12:59 +0100, Jan Beulich wrote: > > Read that message again from the point of view of a contributor. > > Pretend it isn't even me; pretend it's someone attempting to make > > their first, trivial, improvement to the Xen ecosystem. > >=20 > > I hope you'll understand why my initial reaction was just a > > monosyllabic 'no'. >=20 > To be honest- no, I don't. I didn't say "no way". Then you have completely missed my point about how subtly understating your 'objections' makes no difference at all to the outcome. But OK, I'll come back to that at the end. You have made your intent clear, more than once now, and we should take it on board. > Instead I asked back to see whether there's more background to this. > It is a useful piece of information to know that -MP post-dates -MD > by 10 or more years. It's still speculation of why a new option was > added rather than making this default behavior, but I feel less > afraid of the change this way than by an implied "this not going to > do any harm" without really being certain why there is a separate > option in the first place (and gcc doc also not saying anything to > this effect). It is not my job to make you feel less afraid of change. > I can certainly follow your sentiment, not the least because > especially in my early days I also frequently got back replies I > didn't like, in various projects. Yet in a case like this one I'm > afraid it is not the reviewer's job to point out the unsafety of > a change, but it's the submitter who has to (sufficiently) prove > that a change won't break anything.=20 I'm sure you didn't mean it as such, Jan, but FYI that response could be construed as being fairly patronising. If you were to direct it towards someone who's even remotely inclined to feeling patronised, that is. :) > Yes, in the typical case, when there's a recognizable bug, the > reviewer would point this out. But there are cases where there's no > obvious bug, but experience (and, as so often, insufficient > documentation) tells one to be wary of changes of, possibly, any > kind. I find this response to be purely obstructive and unhelpful. Your response to my patch was basically asking me to prove a negative, and I find myself surprised and disappointed that you cannot acknowledge that. I didn't think our viewpoints were really that far apart; perhaps I was wrong. If there was an actual bug =E2=80=94 or even the suspicion of a bug =E2=80= =94 I could understand it. But this is just voodoo "we're too scared to change things because we don't understand". We are better than that. You can be better than that. But I will take on board your comments about understatement and the fact that you hadn't actually said "no". In future I shall consider merely ignoring such interjections unless you explicitly state that you are blocking the acceptance of a patch. Or, I suppose, resorting to the style of monosyllabic answer that I had originally given in this case. I trust that maintainers will take that on board too, and that open "questions" from you in a thread will not be considered sufficient reason not to merge a patch. 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