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Thu, 08 Aug 2019 04:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [100.64.77.56] ([205.185.206.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s3sm76527726iob.49.2019.08.08.04.22.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 04:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Rich Persaud X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16G77) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:22:51 -0400 Message-Id: References: <20190807194143.1351-1-andrew.cooper3@citrix.com> <2e3a40d8-14ec-9f84-6a43-d7389bdbebf8@citrix.com> <40816d88-b7e2-7d9f-2d7a-bede37a80e99@arm.com> To: Jan Beulich Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] Terminology for "guest" - Was: [PATCH] docs/sphinx: Introduction X-BeenThere: xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Xen developer discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Lars Kurth , StefanoStabellini , Wei Liu , George Dunlap , Andrew Cooper , Christopher Clark , Daniel Smith , Julien Grall , Ian Jackson , Xen-devel , =?utf-8?Q?Roger_Pau_Monn=C3=A9?= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9111207234785156758==" Errors-To: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Sender: "Xen-devel" --===============9111207234785156758== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-48F7C60D-96AB-4BAD-987D-877BF4E1D4A2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-48F7C60D-96AB-4BAD-987D-877BF4E1D4A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Aug 8, 2019, at 06:49, Jan Beulich wrote: >=20 >> On 08.08.2019 11:13, Julien Grall wrote: >> Hi Jan, >>=20 >>> On 08/08/2019 10:04, Jan Beulich wrote: >>>> On 08.08.2019 10:43, Andrew Cooper wrote: >>>>> On 08/08/2019 07:22, Jan Beulich wrote: >>>>>> On 07.08.2019 21:41, Andrew Cooper wrote: >>>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>>> +++ b/docs/glossary.rst >>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,37 @@ >>>>>> +Glossary >>>>>> +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>>> + >>>>>> +.. Terms should appear in alphabetical order >>>>>> + >>>>>> +.. glossary:: >>>>>> + >>>>>> + control domain >>>>>> + A :term:`domain`, commonly dom0, with the permission and >>>>>> responsibility >>>>>> + to create and manage other domains on the system. >>>>>> + >>>>>> + domain >>>>>> + A domain is Xen's unit of resource ownership, and generally has= >>>>>> at the >>>>>> + minimum some RAM and virtual CPUs. >>>>>> + >>>>>> + The terms :term:`domain` and :term:`guest` are commonly used >>>>>> + interchangeably, but they mean subtly different things. >>>>>> + >>>>>> + A guest is a single virtual machine. >>>>>> + >>>>>> + Consider the case of live migration where, for a period of >>>>>> time, one >>>>>> + guest will be comprised of two domains, while it is in transit.= >>>>>> + >>>>>> + domid >>>>>> + The numeric identifier of a running :term:`domain`. It is >>>>>> unique to a >>>>>> + single instance of Xen, used as the identifier in various APIs,= >>>>>> and is >>>>>> + typically allocated sequentially from 0. >>>>>> + >>>>>> + guest >>>>>> + See :term:`domain` >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think you want to mention the usual distinction here: Dom0 is, >>>>> while a domain, commonly not considered a guest. >>>>=20 >>>> To be honest, I had totally forgotten about that. I guess now is the >>>> proper time to rehash it in public. >>>>=20 >>>> I don't think the way it currently gets used has a clear or coherent se= t >>>> of rules, because I can't think of any to describe how it does get used= . >>>>=20 >>>> Either there are a clear and coherent (and simple!) set of rules for >>>> what we mean by "guest", at which point they can live here in the >>>> glossary, or the fuzzy way it is current used should cease. >>>=20 >>> What's fuzzy about Dom0 not being a guest (due to being a part of the >>> host instead)? >> Dom0 is not part of the host if you are using an hardware domain. >=20 > It's still the control domain then, and hence still part of the host. With disaggregation and dom0less (how might we describe that term in the int= ro?) for edge/embedded Xen systems, there could be a mode where the control d= omain has never had privilege over the domain that handles the physical TPM,= or the provider of the virtual TPM: =20 https://lists.gt.net/xen/devel/557782 Rich= --Apple-Mail-48F7C60D-96AB-4BAD-987D-877BF4E1D4A2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On A= ug 8, 2019, at 06:49, Jan Beulich <J= Beulich@suse.com> wrote:

On 08.08.2019 11:13, Julien Grall wrote:=
Hi Jan,

On 08/08/2019 10:04, Jan Beulich wrote:
On 08.08.2019 10:43, A= ndrew Cooper wrote:
On 08/08/201= 9 07:22, Jan Beulich wrote:
On 07.08.2019 21:41, Andrew Cooper wrote:=
--- /dev/null
+++ b/docs/glossary.rst
@@ -0,0 +1,37 @@
+Glossary
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+
+.. Terms should appear in alphabetica= l order
+
+.. glossary::
<= /blockquote>
+
=
+   control domain
+     A :ter= m:`domain`, commonly dom0, with the permission and
=
responsibility
=
+     to create and mana= ge other domains on the system.
+
+&= nbsp;  domain
+     A domain is Xen's unit of resource ownership, an= d generally has
a= t the
+ &nbs= p;   minimum some RAM and virtual CPUs.
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
+
+     The terms :term:`domain` and :te= rm:`guest` are commonly used
+     interchangeably, but they mean subtly d= ifferent things.
= +
+  &n= bsp;  A guest is a single virtual machine.
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">+
+     Consider the case of live migration w= here, for a period of
<= span>time, one
+&= nbsp;    guest will be comprised of two domains, while it is i= n transit.
+
+   domid
=
+   = ;  The numeric identifier of a running :term:`domain`.  It is
unique to a
+     s= ingle instance of Xen, used as the identifier in various APIs,
and is
<= /blockquote>
+     typically alloc= ated sequentially from 0.
<= /blockquote>
+
+ = ;  guest
=
+&n= bsp;    See :term:`domain`
<= /span>
I think you want to mention the usual distinction here: D= om0 is,
while a domain, commonly not considered a guest.=

To be honest, I had tot= ally forgotten about that.  I guess now is the
<= /blockquote>
proper time to rehash it in public.<= br>

=
I don't think the way it currently gets used= has a clear or coherent set
of rules, because I can't think of any to describe how it does get= used.

<= /blockquote>
Either there are a clear and co= herent (and simple!) set of rules for
what we mean by "guest", at which point they can live her= e in the
glossary, o= r the fuzzy way it is current used should cease.

What's fuzzy about Dom0 not being a guest (due to bei= ng a part of the
host instead)?
Dom0 is not part of the host if yo= u are using an hardware domain.

It's still the control domain then, and hence still part of the host.

With disaggregation and dom0less (how might we= describe that term in the intro?) for edge/embedded Xen systems, there coul= d be a mode where the control domain has never had privilege over the domain that handles the ph= ysical TPM, or the https://lists.gt.net= /xen/devel/557782

Rich
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