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From: Hannes Reinecke <hare@suse.de>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>, SelvaKumar S <selvakuma.s1@samsung.com>
Cc: linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org, kbusch@kernel.org,
	axboe@kernel.dk, damien.lemoal@wdc.com, sagi@grimberg.me,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	dm-devel@redhat.com, snitzer@redhat.com, selvajove@gmail.com,
	nj.shetty@samsung.com, joshi.k@samsung.com,
	javier.gonz@samsung.com,
	"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
	Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>,
	Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@redhat.com>,
	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 0/2] add simple copy support
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 15:56:15 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <01fe46ac-16a5-d4db-f23d-07a03d3935f3@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20201207141123.GC31159@lst.de>

On 12/7/20 3:11 PM, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> So, I'm really worried about:
> 
>   a) a good use case.  GC in f2fs or btrfs seem like good use cases, as
>      does accelating dm-kcopyd.  I agree with Damien that lifting dm-kcopyd
>      to common code would also be really nice.  I'm not 100% sure it should
>      be a requirement, but it sure would be nice to have
>      I don't think just adding an ioctl is enough of a use case for complex
>      kernel infrastructure.
>   b) We had a bunch of different attempts at SCSI XCOPY support form IIRC
>      Martin, Bart and Mikulas.  I think we need to pull them into this
>      discussion, and make sure whatever we do covers the SCSI needs.
> 
And we shouldn't forget that the main issue which killed all previous 
implementations was a missing QoS guarantee.
It's nice to have simply copy, but if the implementation is _slower_ 
than doing it by hand from the OS there is very little point in even 
attempting to do so.
I can't see any provisions for that in the TPAR, leading me to the 
assumption that NVMe simple copy will suffer from the same issue.

So if we can't address this I guess this attempt will fail, too.

Cheers,

Hannes
-- 
Dr. Hannes Reinecke                Kernel Storage Architect
hare@suse.de                              +49 911 74053 688
SUSE Software Solutions GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg
HRB 36809 (AG Nürnberg), Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Hannes Reinecke <hare@suse.de>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>, SelvaKumar S <selvakuma.s1@samsung.com>
Cc: axboe@kernel.dk, damien.lemoal@wdc.com, sagi@grimberg.me,
	snitzer@redhat.com, selvajove@gmail.com,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com,
	Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@redhat.com>,
	joshi.k@samsung.com,
	"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
	kbusch@kernel.org, javier.gonz@samsung.com,
	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, nj.shetty@samsung.com,
	Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 0/2] add simple copy support
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 15:56:15 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <01fe46ac-16a5-d4db-f23d-07a03d3935f3@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20201207141123.GC31159@lst.de>

On 12/7/20 3:11 PM, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> So, I'm really worried about:
> 
>   a) a good use case.  GC in f2fs or btrfs seem like good use cases, as
>      does accelating dm-kcopyd.  I agree with Damien that lifting dm-kcopyd
>      to common code would also be really nice.  I'm not 100% sure it should
>      be a requirement, but it sure would be nice to have
>      I don't think just adding an ioctl is enough of a use case for complex
>      kernel infrastructure.
>   b) We had a bunch of different attempts at SCSI XCOPY support form IIRC
>      Martin, Bart and Mikulas.  I think we need to pull them into this
>      discussion, and make sure whatever we do covers the SCSI needs.
> 
And we shouldn't forget that the main issue which killed all previous 
implementations was a missing QoS guarantee.
It's nice to have simply copy, but if the implementation is _slower_ 
than doing it by hand from the OS there is very little point in even 
attempting to do so.
I can't see any provisions for that in the TPAR, leading me to the 
assumption that NVMe simple copy will suffer from the same issue.

So if we can't address this I guess this attempt will fail, too.

Cheers,

Hannes
-- 
Dr. Hannes Reinecke                Kernel Storage Architect
hare@suse.de                              +49 911 74053 688
SUSE Software Solutions GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg
HRB 36809 (AG Nürnberg), Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

_______________________________________________
Linux-nvme mailing list
Linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvme

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Hannes Reinecke <hare@suse.de>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>, SelvaKumar S <selvakuma.s1@samsung.com>
Cc: axboe@kernel.dk, damien.lemoal@wdc.com, sagi@grimberg.me,
	snitzer@redhat.com, selvajove@gmail.com,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com,
	Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@redhat.com>,
	joshi.k@samsung.com,
	"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
	kbusch@kernel.org, javier.gonz@samsung.com,
	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, nj.shetty@samsung.com,
	Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [RFC PATCH v2 0/2] add simple copy support
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 15:56:15 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <01fe46ac-16a5-d4db-f23d-07a03d3935f3@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20201207141123.GC31159@lst.de>

On 12/7/20 3:11 PM, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> So, I'm really worried about:
> 
>   a) a good use case.  GC in f2fs or btrfs seem like good use cases, as
>      does accelating dm-kcopyd.  I agree with Damien that lifting dm-kcopyd
>      to common code would also be really nice.  I'm not 100% sure it should
>      be a requirement, but it sure would be nice to have
>      I don't think just adding an ioctl is enough of a use case for complex
>      kernel infrastructure.
>   b) We had a bunch of different attempts at SCSI XCOPY support form IIRC
>      Martin, Bart and Mikulas.  I think we need to pull them into this
>      discussion, and make sure whatever we do covers the SCSI needs.
> 
And we shouldn't forget that the main issue which killed all previous 
implementations was a missing QoS guarantee.
It's nice to have simply copy, but if the implementation is _slower_ 
than doing it by hand from the OS there is very little point in even 
attempting to do so.
I can't see any provisions for that in the TPAR, leading me to the 
assumption that NVMe simple copy will suffer from the same issue.

So if we can't address this I guess this attempt will fail, too.

Cheers,

Hannes
-- 
Dr. Hannes Reinecke                Kernel Storage Architect
hare@suse.de                              +49 911 74053 688
SUSE Software Solutions GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg
HRB 36809 (AG Nürnberg), Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer


--
dm-devel mailing list
dm-devel@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel

  reply	other threads:[~2020-12-07 14:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 78+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <CGME20201204094719epcas5p23b3c41223897de3840f92ae3c229cda5@epcas5p2.samsung.com>
2020-12-04  9:46 ` [RFC PATCH v2 0/2] add simple copy support SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04  9:46   ` [dm-devel] " SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04  9:46   ` SelvaKumar S
     [not found]   ` <CGME20201204094731epcas5p307fe5a0b9360c5057cd48e42c9300053@epcas5p3.samsung.com>
2020-12-04  9:46     ` [RFC PATCH v2 1/2] block: " SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04  9:46       ` [dm-devel] " SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04  9:46       ` SelvaKumar S
2020-12-09  4:19       ` [dm-devel] " Martin K. Petersen
2020-12-09  4:19         ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-12-09  4:19         ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-12-09  5:17         ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-09  5:17           ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-09  5:17           ` Damien Le Moal
     [not found]   ` <CGME20201204094747epcas5p121b6eccf78a29ed4cba7c22d6b42d160@epcas5p1.samsung.com>
2020-12-04  9:46     ` [RFC PATCH v2 2/2] nvme: " SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04  9:46       ` [dm-devel] " SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04  9:46       ` SelvaKumar S
2020-12-04 11:25   ` [RFC PATCH v2 0/2] " Damien Le Moal
2020-12-04 11:25     ` [dm-devel] " Damien Le Moal
2020-12-04 11:25     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-04 14:40     ` Keith Busch
2020-12-04 14:40       ` [dm-devel] " Keith Busch
2020-12-04 14:40       ` Keith Busch
2020-12-07  7:46       ` javier.gonz@samsung.com
2020-12-07  7:46         ` [dm-devel] " javier.gonz@samsung.com
2020-12-07  7:46         ` javier.gonz@samsung.com
2020-12-07  8:06         ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-07  8:06           ` [dm-devel] " Damien Le Moal
2020-12-07  8:06           ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-07  8:16           ` javier.gonz@samsung.com
2020-12-07  8:16             ` [dm-devel] " javier.gonz@samsung.com
2020-12-07  8:16             ` javier.gonz@samsung.com
2020-12-07  9:01             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-07  9:01               ` [dm-devel] " Damien Le Moal
2020-12-07  9:01               ` Damien Le Moal
2020-12-07 14:11   ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-12-07 14:11     ` [dm-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2020-12-07 14:11     ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-12-07 14:56     ` Hannes Reinecke [this message]
2020-12-07 14:56       ` [dm-devel] " Hannes Reinecke
2020-12-07 14:56       ` Hannes Reinecke
2020-12-07 19:24       ` Javier González
2020-12-07 19:24         ` [dm-devel] " Javier González
2020-12-07 19:24         ` Javier González
2020-12-08  8:40         ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08  8:40           ` [dm-devel] " Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08  8:40           ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08 12:22           ` Javier González
2020-12-08 12:22             ` [dm-devel] " Javier González
2020-12-08 12:22             ` Javier González
2020-12-08 12:37             ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08 12:37               ` [dm-devel] " Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08 12:37               ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08 13:13               ` Javier González
2020-12-08 13:13                 ` [dm-devel] " Javier González
2020-12-08 13:13                 ` Javier González
2020-12-08 13:24                 ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08 13:24                   ` [dm-devel] " Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-08 13:24                   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-12-09  9:17                   ` Javier González
2020-12-09  9:17                     ` [dm-devel] " Javier González
2020-12-09  9:17                     ` Javier González
2020-12-15 23:45               ` Pavel Machek
2020-12-15 23:45                 ` [dm-devel] " Pavel Machek
2020-12-15 23:45                 ` Pavel Machek
2020-12-07 22:12       ` Douglas Gilbert
2020-12-07 22:12         ` [dm-devel] " Douglas Gilbert
2020-12-07 22:12         ` Douglas Gilbert
2020-12-08  6:44         ` Hannes Reinecke
2020-12-08  6:44           ` [dm-devel] " Hannes Reinecke
2020-12-08  6:44           ` Hannes Reinecke
2020-12-08 12:21           ` Javier González
2020-12-08 12:21             ` [dm-devel] " Javier González
2020-12-08 12:21             ` Javier González
2020-12-09  3:02       ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-12-09  3:02         ` [dm-devel] " Martin K. Petersen
2020-12-09  3:02         ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-12-07 19:14     ` Javier González
2020-12-07 19:14       ` [dm-devel] " Javier González
2020-12-07 19:14       ` Javier González

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