From: jhf@columbus.rr.com (Joseph Fannin)
To: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>
Cc: Robert Hancock <hancockr@shaw.ca>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
nigel@nigel.suspend2.net
Subject: Re: NAK new drivers without proper power management?
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 23:35:15 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070210043514.GA29679@nineveh.rivenstone.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <75b66ecd0702091759q4140680atee2e80f7ca26af03@mail.gmail.com>
On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 08:59:55PM -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
> On 2/9/07, Robert Hancock <hancockr@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >I would disagree that it's a peripheral issue, it's pretty core these
> >days, at least for any hardware that you can stuff in a laptop (though a
> >fair number of desktops get suspended and resumed these days too).
>
> Servers are still the most important Linux market, and don't care
> about suspend/resume. I would consider implementing suspend./resume
> for a driver that will only be used in server or HPC class hardware a
> waste of valuable development resources.
Please allow me to be offensively blunt for a moment.
So, the situation seems to be:
1. The work of the suspend developer who engages the users who put
effort into making suspend work on their hardware (bless
their addled little heads) often doesn't meet kernel standards,
or isn't well enough documented to prove the real *need* for
the features and/or hacks that have happened to get actual
users' systems sleeping and running again.
2. The swsusp maintainer continues in the belief that as long as
their are no bug reports in kernel bugzilla or crossing the
(relatively obscure) swsusp mailing lists, it has zarro boogs
and meanwhile works on the fourth implementation of suspend
support in as many years. It's in CVS on sourceforge. There's
no documentation whatsoever.
3. There's another guy who appears to be doing a lot of work, so I
shan't leave him out. Like the two developers previously
mentioned, he seems to be working pretty hard on the whole
thing. The previously mentioned fourth suspend implementation
seems to be largely his doing, for good and for ill.
4. "Everybody" knows suspend doesn't work on Linux without a huge
amount of tinkering, deep magic, and dead chickens. Only
Gentoo users seem to bother; everyone else waits for Ubuntu
12.04 wherein suspend will "just work". The Gentoo users all
use swsusp2, as it contains the hacks to work around:
5. All the suspend developers blame the lack of power-management
support in drivers for the inablility of Linux to properly
suspend on anything that doesn't support APM.
6. Getting proper power-management support in Linux device drivers
is not a priority; drivers without any power management support
whatsoever should not only be accepted -- they should be merged
without comment or complaint.
How is working suspend support ever supposed to happen?
--
Joseph Fannin
jfannin@gmail.com || jhf@columbus.rr.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-10 4:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 155+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <fa.xSKPgY66Q+DPCZ1pszFFfdrJ0To@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.FzHdYYYH5Ru57c8/yRxLylpH0Kk@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.DuG12yQo+RR4jIjJTnoOwtKM0Ao@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.Jy0FJQtASvVEpsy8Q96uoHtyEVA@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-10 1:50 ` NAK new drivers without proper power management? Robert Hancock
2007-02-10 1:59 ` Lee Revell
2007-02-10 2:09 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 2:22 ` Lee Revell
2007-02-10 3:21 ` Kevin Fox
2007-02-10 20:40 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-10 4:35 ` Joseph Fannin [this message]
2007-02-13 21:08 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-10 12:47 ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-10 2:05 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 3:27 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2007-02-10 4:18 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 3:02 ` [PATCH] " Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 9:34 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 9:34 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 10:02 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 10:30 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 10:30 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 17:52 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-10 17:52 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-10 19:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 19:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 6:54 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 6:54 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 12:13 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-11 13:09 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:09 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:19 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-11 13:37 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:37 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 13:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 13:57 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:57 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 14:36 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 14:36 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 15:19 ` Pekka Enberg
2007-02-11 15:19 ` Pekka Enberg
2007-02-11 18:31 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 18:31 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 17:27 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-11 18:53 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 18:53 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:06 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:06 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:10 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:10 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 21:04 ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-11 21:04 ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-11 21:10 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 17:36 ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 22:49 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 19:37 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 19:37 ` Pavel Machek
[not found] ` <fa.DhkemAgVI60diqZy0t9GzpwyLmk@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.E/NjHlgg0HqDg5CgZjnCHFi2AMM@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.kop49l/7yexJoUGrzk6vVeIP934@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-10 23:20 ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 0:44 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 17:01 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 22:40 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:29 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:40 ` Nigel Cunningham
[not found] ` <fa.EgQN5JpU6xrZSLyOY0kWjJ26hUM@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-11 18:31 ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 21:52 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 22:26 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:46 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 23:18 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:38 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 23:45 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 0:26 ` Alan
2007-02-12 5:19 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-12 20:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 22:36 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:23 ` Alan
2007-02-11 23:38 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:41 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:47 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:55 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 0:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 0:15 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 12:19 ` Pavel Machek
[not found] ` <fa.O1YH4k5KtBGCNs5i2yB17bPvPGw@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.RfzClbTP/7B79AoEbQLNj3ABfIk@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.AaJ/ugmiUmPO8uC+y1rS9JLuuMc@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-12 0:59 ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-09 21:57 Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 22:17 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-09 22:26 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 22:44 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 22:44 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 22:51 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 22:51 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 23:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 23:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 23:28 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 23:28 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 0:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 0:12 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 0:25 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-10 6:43 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-10 23:52 ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-10 7:15 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-10 19:38 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-10 22:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 22:37 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 23:45 ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-11 0:27 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 22:41 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-13 15:55 ` Mark Lord
2007-02-13 16:06 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-02-11 22:37 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 0:10 ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-12 0:20 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 4:08 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 20:06 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 22:38 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 6:46 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:04 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 22:47 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:57 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-11 23:20 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:25 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-11 23:29 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 23:33 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 16:52 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 20:31 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 20:58 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 21:01 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 21:24 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 21:43 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-13 9:42 ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-13 19:24 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-14 23:45 ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-12 9:45 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-12 12:59 ` Gerhard Mack
2007-02-12 20:20 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-13 15:23 ` Brad Campbell
2007-02-12 20:46 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 13:51 ` Tino Keitel
2007-02-11 19:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 21:02 ` Alan
2007-02-11 23:04 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 0:28 ` Alan
2007-02-12 0:24 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:10 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:16 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:22 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:23 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 23:21 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 23:29 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:21 ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-12 8:49 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-12 15:04 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 15:57 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-12 16:55 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 20:38 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-13 10:02 ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-10 3:42 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-10 4:42 ` Nigel Cunningham
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