From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com> To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>, "linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>, Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>, Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>, Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>, Andrea Righi <arighi@develer.com>, linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:53:56 +0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20110826095356.GA5124@localhost> (raw) In-Reply-To: <1314348971.26922.20.camel@twins> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 04:56:11PM +0800, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 09:56 +0800, Wu Fengguang wrote: > > /* > > * A linear estimation of the "balanced" throttle rate. The theory is, > > * if there are N dd tasks, each throttled at task_ratelimit, the bdi's > > * dirty_rate will be measured to be (N * task_ratelimit). So the below > > * formula will yield the balanced rate limit (write_bw / N). > > * > > * Note that the expanded form is not a pure rate feedback: > > * rate_(i+1) = rate_(i) * (write_bw / dirty_rate) (1) > > * but also takes pos_ratio into account: > > * rate_(i+1) = rate_(i) * (write_bw / dirty_rate) * pos_ratio (2) > > * > > * (1) is not realistic because pos_ratio also takes part in balancing > > * the dirty rate. Consider the state > > * pos_ratio = 0.5 (3) > > * rate = 2 * (write_bw / N) (4) > > * If (1) is used, it will stuck in that state! Because each dd will be > > * throttled at > > * task_ratelimit = pos_ratio * rate = (write_bw / N) (5) > > * yielding > > * dirty_rate = N * task_ratelimit = write_bw (6) > > * put (6) into (1) we get > > * rate_(i+1) = rate_(i) (7) > > * > > * So we end up using (2) to always keep > > * rate_(i+1) ~= (write_bw / N) (8) > > * regardless of the value of pos_ratio. As long as (8) is satisfied, > > * pos_ratio is able to drive itself to 1.0, which is not only where > > * the dirty count meet the setpoint, but also where the slope of > > * pos_ratio is most flat and hence task_ratelimit is least fluctuated. > > */ > > I'm still not buying this, it has the massive assumption N is a > constant, without that assumption you get the same kind of thing you get > from not adding pos_ratio to the feedback term. The reasoning between (3)-(7) actually assumes both N and write_bw to be some constant. It's documenting some stuck state.. > Also, I've yet to see what harm it does if you leave it out, all > feedback loops should stabilize just fine. That's a good question. It should be trivial to try out equation (1) and see how it work out in practice. Let me collect some figures.. Thanks, Fengguang
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com> To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> Cc: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>, "linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>, Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>, Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>, Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>, Andrea Righi <arighi@develer.com>, linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:53:56 +0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20110826095356.GA5124@localhost> (raw) In-Reply-To: <1314348971.26922.20.camel@twins> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 04:56:11PM +0800, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 09:56 +0800, Wu Fengguang wrote: > > /* > > * A linear estimation of the "balanced" throttle rate. The theory is, > > * if there are N dd tasks, each throttled at task_ratelimit, the bdi's > > * dirty_rate will be measured to be (N * task_ratelimit). So the below > > * formula will yield the balanced rate limit (write_bw / N). > > * > > * Note that the expanded form is not a pure rate feedback: > > * rate_(i+1) = rate_(i) * (write_bw / dirty_rate) (1) > > * but also takes pos_ratio into account: > > * rate_(i+1) = rate_(i) * (write_bw / dirty_rate) * pos_ratio (2) > > * > > * (1) is not realistic because pos_ratio also takes part in balancing > > * the dirty rate. Consider the state > > * pos_ratio = 0.5 (3) > > * rate = 2 * (write_bw / N) (4) > > * If (1) is used, it will stuck in that state! Because each dd will be > > * throttled at > > * task_ratelimit = pos_ratio * rate = (write_bw / N) (5) > > * yielding > > * dirty_rate = N * task_ratelimit = write_bw (6) > > * put (6) into (1) we get > > * rate_(i+1) = rate_(i) (7) > > * > > * So we end up using (2) to always keep > > * rate_(i+1) ~= (write_bw / N) (8) > > * regardless of the value of pos_ratio. As long as (8) is satisfied, > > * pos_ratio is able to drive itself to 1.0, which is not only where > > * the dirty count meet the setpoint, but also where the slope of > > * pos_ratio is most flat and hence task_ratelimit is least fluctuated. > > */ > > I'm still not buying this, it has the massive assumption N is a > constant, without that assumption you get the same kind of thing you get > from not adding pos_ratio to the feedback term. The reasoning between (3)-(7) actually assumes both N and write_bw to be some constant. It's documenting some stuck state.. > Also, I've yet to see what harm it does if you leave it out, all > feedback loops should stabilize just fine. That's a good question. It should be trivial to try out equation (1) and see how it work out in practice. Let me collect some figures.. Thanks, Fengguang -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Fight unfair telecom internet charges in Canada: sign http://stopthemeter.ca/ Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-08-26 9:54 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 305+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2011-08-06 8:44 [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v8 Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` [PATCH 1/5] writeback: account per-bdi accumulated dirtied pages Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 13:46 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 13:46 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 13:46 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:31 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:31 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:31 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 22:47 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 22:47 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 9:31 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 9:31 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 9:31 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 12:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 12:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 23:05 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 23:05 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 10:32 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 10:32 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 10:32 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 17:20 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 17:20 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 17:20 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 22:34 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-10 22:34 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-11 2:29 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 2:29 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 11:14 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-11 11:14 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-16 8:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 8:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 13:19 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 13:19 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 21:40 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 21:40 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-16 8:55 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 8:55 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 22:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-11 22:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-11 22:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 2:43 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 2:43 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 3:18 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 5:45 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 5:45 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 9:45 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 9:45 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 9:45 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 11:07 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 11:07 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 12:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 12:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 12:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 9:47 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 9:47 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 9:47 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 11:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 11:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 12:54 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 12:54 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 12:54 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 12:59 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 12:59 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 13:08 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 13:08 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 13:08 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 13:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 13:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 13:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-12 14:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-12 14:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-22 15:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-22 15:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-22 15:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-23 3:40 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-23 3:40 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-23 10:01 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-23 10:01 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-23 10:01 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-23 14:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-23 14:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-23 17:47 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-23 17:47 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-24 0:12 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-24 0:12 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-24 16:12 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-24 16:12 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 0:18 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 0:18 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 9:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 9:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 10:04 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 10:04 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 10:42 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 10:42 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 10:52 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 10:52 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 11:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 12:11 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 12:11 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 12:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 12:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 13:13 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 13:18 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 13:18 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 13:24 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 13:24 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-24 18:00 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-24 18:00 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-25 3:19 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-25 3:19 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-25 22:20 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-25 22:20 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-26 1:56 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 1:56 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-26 8:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 8:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-26 9:53 ` Wu Fengguang [this message] 2011-08-26 9:53 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-29 13:12 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-29 13:12 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-29 13:37 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-29 13:37 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-09-02 12:16 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-09-02 12:16 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-09-06 12:40 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-09-06 12:40 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-24 15:57 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-24 15:57 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-24 15:57 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-25 5:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-25 5:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-23 14:36 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-23 14:36 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 2:08 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 2:08 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-16 8:59 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 8:59 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` [PATCH 3/5] writeback: dirty rate control Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 14:54 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 14:54 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-11 3:42 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 3:42 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 14:57 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 14:57 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 14:57 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 11:07 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 11:07 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 16:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 16:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 16:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-15 14:08 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-15 14:08 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 15:50 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 15:50 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 16:16 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:16 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:16 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 14:07 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 14:07 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 14:00 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 14:00 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 17:10 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 17:10 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-15 14:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-15 14:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 16:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 16:56 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 14:10 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 17:02 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 17:02 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 17:02 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 14:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 14:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` [PATCH 4/5] writeback: per task dirty rate limit Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 14:35 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-06 14:35 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-07 6:19 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-07 6:19 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 13:47 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 13:47 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 13:47 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 23:32 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 23:32 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:23 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:23 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 14:26 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:26 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 14:26 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-08 22:38 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-08 22:38 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-13 16:28 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-13 16:28 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-15 14:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-15 14:26 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-15 14:26 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-09 17:46 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 17:46 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 3:29 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 3:29 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 18:18 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 18:18 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-11 0:55 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 0:55 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 18:35 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 18:35 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 18:35 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 3:40 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 3:40 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 10:25 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 10:25 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 10:25 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 11:13 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 11:13 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` [PATCH 5/5] writeback: IO-less balance_dirty_pages() Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 8:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 14:48 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-06 14:48 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-06 14:48 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-07 6:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-07 6:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-07 6:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-06 16:46 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-06 16:46 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-07 7:18 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-07 9:50 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-07 9:50 ` Andrea Righi 2011-08-09 18:15 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 18:15 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 18:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 18:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-09 18:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2011-08-10 3:22 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 3:22 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 3:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-10 3:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 19:16 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 19:16 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 4:33 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-09 2:01 ` [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v8 Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 2:01 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 5:55 ` Dave Chinner 2011-08-09 5:55 ` Dave Chinner 2011-08-09 14:04 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-09 14:04 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 7:41 ` Greg Thelen 2011-08-10 7:41 ` Greg Thelen 2011-08-10 7:41 ` Greg Thelen 2011-08-10 18:40 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 18:40 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-10 18:40 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-11 3:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 3:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-11 20:42 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-11 20:42 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-11 21:00 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-11 21:00 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-16 2:20 [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v9 Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 2:20 ` [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 2:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 2:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-16 19:41 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-16 19:41 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-17 13:23 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-17 13:49 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-17 13:49 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-17 20:24 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-17 20:24 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-18 4:18 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-18 4:18 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-18 4:41 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-18 4:41 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-18 19:16 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-18 19:16 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-24 3:16 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-24 3:16 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-19 2:53 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-19 2:53 ` Vivek Goyal 2011-08-19 3:25 ` Wu Fengguang 2011-08-19 3:25 ` Wu Fengguang [not found] <CAFdhcLRKvfqBnXCXLwq-Qe1eNAGC-8XJ3BtHpQKzaa3RhHyp6A@mail.gmail.com> 2011-08-17 6:40 ` David Horner 2011-08-17 12:03 ` Jan Kara 2011-08-17 12:35 ` Wu Fengguang
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