[PATCH] filesystems.5: rephrase NTFS description to avoid awkward (and wrong) possessive of MS Windows

[PATCH] filesystems.5: rephrase NTFS description to avoid awkward (and wrong) possessive of MS Windows

[Ahelenia Ziemiańska]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 739 bytes --]

Signed-off-by: Ahelenia Ziemiańska <nabijaczleweli@nabijaczleweli.xyz>
---
 man5/filesystems.5 | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/man5/filesystems.5 b/man5/filesystems.5
index 1eda05b22..ce8db326c 100644
--- a/man5/filesystems.5
+++ b/man5/filesystems.5
@@ -169,7 +169,7 @@ filesystem was removed from the kernel in 4.17-rc4.
 is the network filesystem used to access disks located on remote computers.
 .TP
 .B ntfs
-replaces Microsoft Window's FAT filesystems (VFAT, FAT32).
+replaces FAT filesystems (VFAT, FAT32) in Microsoft Windows.
 It has reliability, performance, and space-utilization enhancements
 plus features like ACLs, journaling, encryption, and so on.
 .TP
-- 
2.20.1

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [PATCH] filesystems.5: rephrase NTFS description to avoid awkward (and wrong) possessive of MS Windows

[Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)]

Hello Ahelenia,

I don't know much about MS,
but AFAIK, it was MS who designed FAT32.

I'll quote Wikipedia, although it may be incorrect:

[
Microsoft designed a new version of the file system, FAT32
]

[
VFAT (for "Virtual FAT") after the Windows 95 virtual device driver
]

If those two quotes are correct,
I think the current manual page text is also valid.

Thanks,

Alex

On 12/17/20 4:28 PM, Ahelenia Ziemiańska wrote:
> Signed-off-by: Ahelenia Ziemiańska <nabijaczleweli@nabijaczleweli.xyz>
> ---
>  man5/filesystems.5 | 2 +-
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
> 
> diff --git a/man5/filesystems.5 b/man5/filesystems.5
> index 1eda05b22..ce8db326c 100644
> --- a/man5/filesystems.5
> +++ b/man5/filesystems.5
> @@ -169,7 +169,7 @@ filesystem was removed from the kernel in 4.17-rc4.
>  is the network filesystem used to access disks located on remote computers.
>  .TP
>  .B ntfs
> -replaces Microsoft Window's FAT filesystems (VFAT, FAT32).
> +replaces FAT filesystems (VFAT, FAT32) in Microsoft Windows.
>  It has reliability, performance, and space-utilization enhancements
>  plus features like ACLs, journaling, encryption, and so on.
>  .TP
> 

-- 
Alejandro Colomar
Linux man-pages comaintainer; https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
http://www.alejandro-colomar.es

Re: [PATCH] filesystems.5: rephrase NTFS description to avoid awkward (and wrong) possessive of MS Windows

[наб]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2774 bytes --]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 05:17:51PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:
> I don't know much about MS,
> but AFAIK, it was MS who designed FAT32.
> 
> I'll quote Wikipedia, although it may be incorrect:
These are good points, though the miss some of the depth of this issue.

The main point I was driving at with this patch was to fix
"Microsoft Window's FAT filesystems" (i.e. FAT filesystems which belong
 to Microsoft Window, which is decidedly wrong).

FAT32 first shipped with MS-DOS 7.1, as part of Windows 95 OSR2,
but it's a (relatively) simple logical extension of the previous FATx
filesystems (16 and 12 as we know and love them today,
 I don't think the PC ever saw 8), hence the "VFAT" driver name ‒
calling FAT-anything a Windows filesystem would be a flat-out lie,
calling it a Microsoft filesystem would be, uh, facetious.

NTFS (as part of Windows NT), on the other hand, is wholly different
WRT the scope and feature-set (it does borrow some layouting from FAT,
 but reading NTFS as FAT doesn't get you very far, or much).

The replacing bit is also questionable, especially in a.d. 2020:
while it is true that you cannot install NT on FAT (after a certain
 point? my memory ain't what it used to be), and must therefore
replace your existing FAT partitions with NTFS during upgrades;
Windows NT 4.0, the last product to be NT-branded came out in 1996,
i.e. you could not install Windows on FAT (and, therefore,
 upgrade it to NTFS, replacing it) during my entire lifetime.

Indeed, in $(date +%Y) we live in a post-NTFS world ‒ putting NTFS in
the same class as FAT beyond "is a filesystem" is a joke, but in my
haste and pursuit of a small diff I didn't consider the above.
Please see below for updated scissor-patch.

Best,
Ahelenia

-- >8 --
Subject: [PATCH] filesystems.5: reword ntfs description, remove FAT
 comparison

Signed-off-by: Ahelenia Ziemiańska <nabijaczleweli@nabijaczleweli.xyz>
---
 man5/filesystems.5 | 5 ++---
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/man5/filesystems.5 b/man5/filesystems.5
index 301c8fb83..3727d7a7a 100644
--- a/man5/filesystems.5
+++ b/man5/filesystems.5
@@ -169,9 +169,8 @@ filesystem was removed from the kernel in 4.17.
 is the network filesystem used to access disks located on remote computers.
 .TP
 .B ntfs
-replaces Microsoft Window's FAT filesystems (VFAT, FAT32).
-It has reliability, performance, and space-utilization enhancements
-plus features like ACLs, journaling, encryption, and so on.
+is the filesystem native to Microsoft Windows NT,
+supporting features like ACLs, journaling, encryption, and so on.
 .TP
 .B proc
 is a pseudo filesystem which is used as an interface to kernel data
-- 
2.20.1

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [PATCH] filesystems.5: rephrase NTFS description to avoid awkward (and wrong) possessive of MS Windows

[Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)]

Hi Ahelenia,

Thanks for the background!  You're completely right :)

I added your explanation as part of the commit message; it was very
informative.

Patch applied!

Best,

Alex


On 12/17/20 6:52 PM, наб wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 05:17:51PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:
>> I don't know much about MS,
>> but AFAIK, it was MS who designed FAT32.
>>
>> I'll quote Wikipedia, although it may be incorrect:
> These are good points, though the miss some of the depth of this issue.
> 
> The main point I was driving at with this patch was to fix
> "Microsoft Window's FAT filesystems" (i.e. FAT filesystems which belong
>  to Microsoft Window, which is decidedly wrong).
> 
> FAT32 first shipped with MS-DOS 7.1, as part of Windows 95 OSR2,
> but it's a (relatively) simple logical extension of the previous FATx
> filesystems (16 and 12 as we know and love them today,
>  I don't think the PC ever saw 8), hence the "VFAT" driver name ‒
> calling FAT-anything a Windows filesystem would be a flat-out lie,
> calling it a Microsoft filesystem would be, uh, facetious.
> 
> NTFS (as part of Windows NT), on the other hand, is wholly different
> WRT the scope and feature-set (it does borrow some layouting from FAT,
>  but reading NTFS as FAT doesn't get you very far, or much).
> 
> The replacing bit is also questionable, especially in a.d. 2020:
> while it is true that you cannot install NT on FAT (after a certain
>  point? my memory ain't what it used to be), and must therefore
> replace your existing FAT partitions with NTFS during upgrades;
> Windows NT 4.0, the last product to be NT-branded came out in 1996,
> i.e. you could not install Windows on FAT (and, therefore,
>  upgrade it to NTFS, replacing it) during my entire lifetime.
> 
> Indeed, in $(date +%Y) we live in a post-NTFS world ‒ putting NTFS in
> the same class as FAT beyond "is a filesystem" is a joke, but in my
> haste and pursuit of a small diff I didn't consider the above.
> Please see below for updated scissor-patch.
> 
> Best,
> Ahelenia
> 
> -- >8 --
> Subject: [PATCH] filesystems.5: reword ntfs description, remove FAT
>  comparison
> 
> Signed-off-by: Ahelenia Ziemiańska <nabijaczleweli@nabijaczleweli.xyz>
> ---
>  man5/filesystems.5 | 5 ++---
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/man5/filesystems.5 b/man5/filesystems.5
> index 301c8fb83..3727d7a7a 100644
> --- a/man5/filesystems.5
> +++ b/man5/filesystems.5
> @@ -169,9 +169,8 @@ filesystem was removed from the kernel in 4.17.
>  is the network filesystem used to access disks located on remote computers.
>  .TP
>  .B ntfs
> -replaces Microsoft Window's FAT filesystems (VFAT, FAT32).
> -It has reliability, performance, and space-utilization enhancements
> -plus features like ACLs, journaling, encryption, and so on.
> +is the filesystem native to Microsoft Windows NT,
> +supporting features like ACLs, journaling, encryption, and so on.
>  .TP
>  .B proc
>  is a pseudo filesystem which is used as an interface to kernel data
> 

-- 
Alejandro Colomar
Linux man-pages comaintainer; https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/