* [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
@ 2014-07-23 15:02 Till Kamppeter
2014-07-23 15:27 ` Pete Zannucci
2014-07-23 20:15 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Till Kamppeter @ 2014-07-23 15:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Open Printing
Hi,
as talked about in the last OP conference call I want to make use of SLP
to discover printers in the network and especially to discover their
capabilities. Unfortunately documentation about using SLP, especially
with Ubuntu Linux, on the internet is sparse.
I want to let cups-browsed do this automatically, so that I can set up
driver-less print queues for printers with known languages (PDF,
PostScript, PCL, ...) but without polling the printer directly to not
wake up the printer from power save mode.
What I would like to know is:
1. How do I scan the network for SLP services without knowing service
names and types and without knowing which hosts in the network provide
services or are SLP directory agents?
2. In a typical SoHo network, are there SLP services or directory
agents? Are the usual SoHo routers directory agents? Or do I need to
to run an SLP server daemon on the local machine to be able to make use
of SLP?
3. How can I test my environment with command line tools?
I am very grateful for any help towards this.
Till
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-23 15:02 [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol) Till Kamppeter
@ 2014-07-23 15:27 ` Pete Zannucci
2014-07-23 20:15 ` Michael Sweet
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Pete Zannucci @ 2014-07-23 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Till Kamppeter; +Cc: Open Printing, printing-architecture-bounces
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Hello Till,
You can replicate the code used in slptool to find specific services,
locations, and attributes. Make sure the registration with the slp server
is defined for the printer properties you wish to utilize along with being
able to provide the appropriate internet addresses, IPv4 and IPv6.
SLP can help you with the discovery, location, and management of properties
via slp attributes. This link may be helpful.
https://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/tivihelp/v4r1/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.tpc_V332.doc%2Ffqz0_t_configuration_slp_registration_and_slptool.html
You will have to run slpd to track device registrations someplace on your
network and also possibly implement an slp DA for additional performance
and tracking.
Peter Zannucci
IBM Linux Technology Center
Austin, TX - Tel. 512-286-9386 (t/l 363) pzaan@us.ibm.com
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| From: |
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>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Till Kamppeter <till.kamppeter@gmail.com> |
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| To: |
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|Open Printing <printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org>, |
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| Date: |
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|07/23/2014 10:02 AM |
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| Subject: |
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|[Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol) |
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| Sent by: |
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|printing-architecture-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Hi,
as talked about in the last OP conference call I want to make use of SLP
to discover printers in the network and especially to discover their
capabilities. Unfortunately documentation about using SLP, especially
with Ubuntu Linux, on the internet is sparse.
I want to let cups-browsed do this automatically, so that I can set up
driver-less print queues for printers with known languages (PDF,
PostScript, PCL, ...) but without polling the printer directly to not
wake up the printer from power save mode.
What I would like to know is:
1. How do I scan the network for SLP services without knowing service
names and types and without knowing which hosts in the network provide
services or are SLP directory agents?
2. In a typical SoHo network, are there SLP services or directory
agents? Are the usual SoHo routers directory agents? Or do I need to
to run an SLP server daemon on the local machine to be able to make use
of SLP?
3. How can I test my environment with command line tools?
I am very grateful for any help towards this.
Till
_______________________________________________
Printing-architecture mailing list
Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-23 15:02 [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol) Till Kamppeter
2014-07-23 15:27 ` Pete Zannucci
@ 2014-07-23 20:15 ` Michael Sweet
2014-07-23 20:36 ` Ira McDonald
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Sweet @ 2014-07-23 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Till Kamppeter; +Cc: printing-architecture
Till,
On Jul 23, 2014, at 11:02 AM, Till Kamppeter <till.kamppeter@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> as talked about in the last OP conference call I want to make use of SLP
> to discover printers in the network and especially to discover their
> capabilities. Unfortunately documentation about using SLP, especially
> with Ubuntu Linux, on the internet is sparse.
>
> I want to let cups-browsed do this automatically, so that I can set up
> driver-less print queues for printers with known languages (PDF,
> PostScript, PCL, ...) but without polling the printer directly to not
> wake up the printer from power save mode.
SLP is a pretty active protocol, even when a Directory Agent is used, so I would be surprised if you'll be able to do discovery without waking up the printer.
> What I would like to know is:
>
> 1. How do I scan the network for SLP services without knowing service
> names and types and without knowing which hosts in the network provide
> services or are SLP directory agents?
slpd handles the latter for you; you'll want to look for the standard SLP printer service type - the old CUPS code prior to 1.6 mostly did that.
> 2. In a typical SoHo network, are there SLP services or directory
> agents?
No.
> Are the usual SoHo routers directory agents?
No.
> Or do I need to
> to run an SLP server daemon on the local machine to be able to make use
> of SLP?
You don't need one on the local machine, but you *do* need to have one on the network to make SLP practical.
> 3. How can I test my environment with command line tools?
slptool can probably be used to find specific attributes.
_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-23 20:15 ` Michael Sweet
@ 2014-07-23 20:36 ` Ira McDonald
2014-07-24 0:42 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ira McDonald @ 2014-07-23 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Sweet, Pete Zannucci; +Cc: printing-architecture, Till Kamppeter
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Hi,
Thanks Pete and Mike for clear answers Till's questions.
Because SLP will indeed wake the Printer up (just like any SNMP or
IPP query will), there needs to be an SLP Directory Agent on the
relevant network/subnet and the Printers need to advertise to the
SLP DA.
Then the CUPS browse daemon can:
(1) find Printers via DNS-SD / Bonjour (though this might wake up
the Printers - BAD idea).
(2) find and query the SLP DA to discover a list of Printers with all
of their SLP advertised capabilities (about 30 attributes - same ones
as the LDAP Printer schema - I wrote them both).
The print client can choose a Printer (from the combined Bonjour
and SLP discovery) and *then* use IPP to wake up the Printer and
read more capabilities and constraints for a rich print job submission
GUI.
Pete and Mike - does this seem like a viable middle ground to you,
where the relevant network may not have an LDAP server?
Cheers,
- Ira
PS - Mike, I've found SLP support to be common in network Printers
and also fairly common in small routers (like WiFi/ADSL ones).
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
> Till,
>
> On Jul 23, 2014, at 11:02 AM, Till Kamppeter <till.kamppeter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > as talked about in the last OP conference call I want to make use of SLP
> > to discover printers in the network and especially to discover their
> > capabilities. Unfortunately documentation about using SLP, especially
> > with Ubuntu Linux, on the internet is sparse.
> >
> > I want to let cups-browsed do this automatically, so that I can set up
> > driver-less print queues for printers with known languages (PDF,
> > PostScript, PCL, ...) but without polling the printer directly to not
> > wake up the printer from power save mode.
>
> SLP is a pretty active protocol, even when a Directory Agent is used, so I
> would be surprised if you'll be able to do discovery without waking up the
> printer.
>
> > What I would like to know is:
> >
> > 1. How do I scan the network for SLP services without knowing service
> > names and types and without knowing which hosts in the network provide
> > services or are SLP directory agents?
>
> slpd handles the latter for you; you'll want to look for the standard SLP
> printer service type - the old CUPS code prior to 1.6 mostly did that.
>
> > 2. In a typical SoHo network, are there SLP services or directory
> > agents?
>
> No.
>
> > Are the usual SoHo routers directory agents?
>
> No.
>
> > Or do I need to
> > to run an SLP server daemon on the local machine to be able to make use
> > of SLP?
>
> You don't need one on the local machine, but you *do* need to have one on
> the network to make SLP practical.
>
> > 3. How can I test my environment with command line tools?
>
> slptool can probably be used to find specific attributes.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>
> _______________________________________________
> Printing-architecture mailing list
> Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-23 20:36 ` Ira McDonald
@ 2014-07-24 0:42 ` Michael Sweet
2014-07-24 2:10 ` Ira McDonald
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Sweet @ 2014-07-24 0:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ira McDonald; +Cc: printing-architecture, Till Kamppeter, Pete Zannucci
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Ira,
On Jul 23, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> (1) find Printers via DNS-SD / Bonjour (though this might wake up
> the Printers - BAD idea).
Generally speaking, you only wake the printer if you resolve its address.
> ...
> Pete and Mike - does this seem like a viable middle ground to you,
> where the relevant network may not have an LDAP server?
SLP should not be used automatically. Doing SLP without a DA is terrible for the network.
> PS - Mike, I've found SLP support to be common in network Printers
> and also fairly common in small routers (like WiFi/ADSL ones).
None of the consumer routers I've used support SLP out of the box. I'm sure you could use OpenWRT or one of its forks to do so, but that isn't something most users will do.
_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-24 0:42 ` Michael Sweet
@ 2014-07-24 2:10 ` Ira McDonald
2014-07-26 15:58 ` Till Kamppeter
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ira McDonald @ 2014-07-24 2:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Sweet, Ira McDonald
Cc: printing-architecture, Till Kamppeter, Pete Zannucci
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2163 bytes --]
Hi Mike,
O f course, you're right that DNS-SD won't wake up printers.
I agree that SLP without a DA shouldn't be used automatically.
It would wake up printers.
But the whole idea is a spectrum of printer discovery:
a) DNS-SD;
b) SLP to a DA - found via DHCP option (RFC 2610) or SLP DA
broadcast advertising;
c) LDAP w/ Printer Schema, (RFC 3712).
If this doesn't work well in home networks, well it doesn't. Then
you just use DNS-SD/Bonjour and live with the modest number
of discovered capabilities before direct contact with the Printer
during the Print client dialogue.
Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc
mailto: blueroofmusic@gmail.com
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
> Ira,
>
> On Jul 23, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> (1) find Printers via DNS-SD / Bonjour (though this might wake up
> the Printers - BAD idea).
>
>
> Generally speaking, you only wake the printer if you resolve its address.
>
> ...
> Pete and Mike - does this seem like a viable middle ground to you,
> where the relevant network may not have an LDAP server?
>
>
> SLP should not be used automatically. Doing SLP without a DA is terrible
> for the network.
>
> PS - Mike, I've found SLP support to be common in network Printers
> and also fairly common in small routers (like WiFi/ADSL ones).
>
>
> None of the consumer routers I've used support SLP out of the box. I'm
> sure you could use OpenWRT or one of its forks to do so, but that isn't
> something most users will do.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-24 2:10 ` Ira McDonald
@ 2014-07-26 15:58 ` Till Kamppeter
2014-07-26 21:45 ` James Cloos
2014-07-28 13:35 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Till Kamppeter @ 2014-07-26 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ira McDonald, Michael Sweet; +Cc: printing-architecture, Pete Zannucci
On 07/24/2014 04:10 AM, Ira McDonald wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> O f course, you're right that DNS-SD won't wake up printers.
>
> I agree that SLP without a DA shouldn't be used automatically.
> It would wake up printers.
>
> But the whole idea is a spectrum of printer discovery:
> a) DNS-SD;
> b) SLP to a DA - found via DHCP option (RFC 2610) or SLP DA
> broadcast advertising;
> c) LDAP w/ Printer Schema, (RFC 3712).
>
> If this doesn't work well in home networks, well it doesn't. Then
> you just use DNS-SD/Bonjour and live with the modest number
> of discovered capabilities before direct contact with the Printer
> during the Print client dialogue.
Can it be that SLP got obsolete?
I have looked into how to get SLP working under Ubuntu and when
installing the SLP daemon (package "slpd") I ran into the following bug:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openslp-dfsg/+bug/1047561
It seems that in both Debian and Ubuntu SLP is unmaintained. The Debian
package is orphaned (has no official maintainer) and not touched for two
and a half years. Ubuntu simply auto-syncs the package from Debian, no
one actually working on this package. The bug report is probably read
only by the people who are suffering the problem, not by anyone who is
supposed to fix the bug.
So this gives me the impression that for nearly no one SLP is missing,
and so that SLP is perhjaps obsolete.
Till
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-26 15:58 ` Till Kamppeter
@ 2014-07-26 21:45 ` James Cloos
2014-07-28 13:35 ` Michael Sweet
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: James Cloos @ 2014-07-26 21:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Till Kamppeter; +Cc: printing-architecture, Pete Zannucci
>>>>> "TK" == Till Kamppeter <till.kamppeter@gmail.com> writes:
TK> I have looked into how to get SLP working under Ubuntu and when
TK> installing the SLP daemon (package "slpd") I ran into the following bug:
FWIW, the gentoo packaging of 1.2.1 works fine.
The 2.0.0 ebuild is labeled "Untested version bump. Builds." and
requires manual intervention to install. It also works for me.
-JimC
--
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol)
2014-07-26 15:58 ` Till Kamppeter
2014-07-26 21:45 ` James Cloos
@ 2014-07-28 13:35 ` Michael Sweet
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael Sweet @ 2014-07-28 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Till Kamppeter; +Cc: printing-architecture, Pete Zannucci
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Till,
FWIW, I have not received a single complaint about the loss of SLP support in CUPS for sharing. (LDAP yes, but that's something else we are working on...)
Generally speaking, the problems that SLP tried to solve are better solved by DNS-SD. And there are a few WG in the IETF (dnssd, homenet, mif) developing extensions to address "zeroconf" support beyond the local link.
For enterprise/managed environments, LDAP still seems to be king.
On Jul 26, 2014, at 11:58 AM, Till Kamppeter <till.kamppeter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 07/24/2014 04:10 AM, Ira McDonald wrote:
>> Hi Mike,
>> O f course, you're right that DNS-SD won't wake up printers.
>>
>> I agree that SLP without a DA shouldn't be used automatically.
>> It would wake up printers.
>>
>> But the whole idea is a spectrum of printer discovery:
>> a) DNS-SD;
>> b) SLP to a DA - found via DHCP option (RFC 2610) or SLP DA
>> broadcast advertising;
>> c) LDAP w/ Printer Schema, (RFC 3712).
>>
>> If this doesn't work well in home networks, well it doesn't. Then
>> you just use DNS-SD/Bonjour and live with the modest number
>> of discovered capabilities before direct contact with the Printer
>> during the Print client dialogue.
>
> Can it be that SLP got obsolete?
>
> I have looked into how to get SLP working under Ubuntu and when
> installing the SLP daemon (package "slpd") I ran into the following bug:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openslp-dfsg/+bug/1047561
>
> It seems that in both Debian and Ubuntu SLP is unmaintained. The Debian
> package is orphaned (has no official maintainer) and not touched for two
> and a half years. Ubuntu simply auto-syncs the package from Debian, no
> one actually working on this package. The bug report is probably read
> only by the people who are suffering the problem, not by anyone who is
> supposed to fix the bug.
>
> So this gives me the impression that for nearly no one SLP is missing,
> and so that SLP is perhjaps obsolete.
>
> Till
>
_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-07-28 13:35 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-07-23 15:02 [Printing-architecture] SLP (Service Location Protocol) Till Kamppeter
2014-07-23 15:27 ` Pete Zannucci
2014-07-23 20:15 ` Michael Sweet
2014-07-23 20:36 ` Ira McDonald
2014-07-24 0:42 ` Michael Sweet
2014-07-24 2:10 ` Ira McDonald
2014-07-26 15:58 ` Till Kamppeter
2014-07-26 21:45 ` James Cloos
2014-07-28 13:35 ` Michael Sweet
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