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From: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
To: Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Dave Watson <davejwatson@fb.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-api <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Andrew Hunter <ahh@google.com>, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Chris Lameter <cl@linux.com>, Ben Maurer <bmaurer@fb.com>,
	rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Joel Fernandes <joelaf@google.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH for 4.18 00/14] Restartable Sequences
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 12:03:08 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <660904075.9201.1525276988842.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKOZuesa338sc_=w6-wvro25idrSN_zx_zrHFyo-bDiORs7FZw@mail.gmail.com>

----- On May 1, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Daniel Colascione dancol@google.com wrote:
[...]
> 
> I think a small enhancement to rseq would let us build a perfect userspace
> mutex, one that spins on lock-acquire only when the lock owner is running
> and that sleeps otherwise, freeing userspace from both specifying ad-hoc
> spin counts and from trying to detect situations in which spinning is
> generally pointless.
> 
> It'd work like this: in the per-thread rseq data structure, we'd include a
> description of a futex operation for the kernel would perform (in the
> context of the preempted thread) upon preemption, immediately before
> schedule(). If the futex operation itself sleeps, that's no problem: we
> will have still accomplished our goal of running some other thread instead
> of the preempted thread.

Hi Daniel,

I agree that the problem you are aiming to solve is important. Let's see
what prevents the proposed rseq implementation from doing what you envision.

The main issue here is touching userspace immediately before schedule().
At that specific point, it's not possible to take a page fault. In the proposed
rseq implementation, we get away with it by raising a task struct flag, and using
it in a return to userspace notifier (where we can actually take a fault), where
we touch the userspace TLS area.

If we can find a way to solve this limitation, then the rest of your design
makes sense to me.

Thanks!

Mathieu

-- 
Mathieu Desnoyers
EfficiOS Inc.
http://www.efficios.com

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
To: Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Dave Watson <davejwatson@fb.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-api <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Andrew Hunter <ahh@google.com>, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Chris Lameter <cl@linux.com>, Ben Maurer <bmaurer@fb.com>,
	rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Catalin Marinas <cata>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH for 4.18 00/14] Restartable Sequences
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 12:03:08 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <660904075.9201.1525276988842.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKOZuesa338sc_=w6-wvro25idrSN_zx_zrHFyo-bDiORs7FZw@mail.gmail.com>

----- On May 1, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Daniel Colascione dancol@google.com wrote:
[...]
> 
> I think a small enhancement to rseq would let us build a perfect userspace
> mutex, one that spins on lock-acquire only when the lock owner is running
> and that sleeps otherwise, freeing userspace from both specifying ad-hoc
> spin counts and from trying to detect situations in which spinning is
> generally pointless.
> 
> It'd work like this: in the per-thread rseq data structure, we'd include a
> description of a futex operation for the kernel would perform (in the
> context of the preempted thread) upon preemption, immediately before
> schedule(). If the futex operation itself sleeps, that's no problem: we
> will have still accomplished our goal of running some other thread instead
> of the preempted thread.

Hi Daniel,

I agree that the problem you are aiming to solve is important. Let's see
what prevents the proposed rseq implementation from doing what you envision.

The main issue here is touching userspace immediately before schedule().
At that specific point, it's not possible to take a page fault. In the proposed
rseq implementation, we get away with it by raising a task struct flag, and using
it in a return to userspace notifier (where we can actually take a fault), where
we touch the userspace TLS area.

If we can find a way to solve this limitation, then the rest of your design
makes sense to me.

Thanks!

Mathieu

-- 
Mathieu Desnoyers
EfficiOS Inc.
http://www.efficios.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-05-02 16:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-04-30 22:44 [RFC PATCH for 4.18 00/14] Restartable Sequences Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 01/14] uapi headers: Provide types_32_64.h (v2) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 02/14] rseq: Introduce restartable sequences system call (v13) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-16 16:24   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-16 16:24     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-16 20:18     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-16 20:18       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 03/14] arm: Add restartable sequences support Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-16 16:18   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-16 16:18     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-16 20:13     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-16 20:13       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-17 13:32       ` Will Deacon
2018-05-17 13:32         ` Will Deacon
2018-05-17 15:30         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-17 15:30           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-22 18:19           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-22 18:19             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 04/14] arm: Wire up restartable sequences system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 05/14] x86: Add support for restartable sequences (v2) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 06/14] x86: Wire up restartable sequence system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 07/14] powerpc: Add support for restartable sequences Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-16 16:18   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-16 16:18     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-16 20:13     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-16 20:13       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-17  1:19       ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-17  1:19         ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-17  1:19         ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-17  7:43         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-17  7:43           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-17 15:28         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-17 15:28           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-17 23:50           ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-17 23:50             ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-18 18:17             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-18 18:17               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-20 14:08               ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-20 14:08                 ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-20 14:08                 ` Boqun Feng
2018-05-23 20:14                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-23 20:14                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-23 20:46                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-05-23 20:46                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-05-23 21:29                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-23 21:29                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-24  1:03                     ` Michael Ellerman
2018-05-24  1:03                       ` Michael Ellerman
2018-05-28  7:00                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-28  7:00                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-18 12:38           ` Michael Ellerman
2018-05-18 12:38             ` Michael Ellerman
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 08/14] powerpc: Wire up restartable sequences system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 09/14] selftests: lib.mk: Introduce OVERRIDE_TARGETS Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` mathieu.desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 10/14] rseq: selftests: Provide rseq library (v5) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` mathieu.desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 11/14] rseq: selftests: Provide basic test Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` mathieu.desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 12/14] rseq: selftests: Provide basic percpu ops test (v2) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` mathieu.desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 13/14] rseq: selftests: Provide parametrized tests (v2) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` mathieu.desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44 ` [PATCH 14/14] rseq: selftests: Provide Makefile, scripts, gitignore (v2) Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-30 22:44   ` mathieu.desnoyers
2018-05-02  3:53 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.18 00/14] Restartable Sequences Daniel Colascione
2018-05-02  8:43   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-02 16:03   ` Mathieu Desnoyers [this message]
2018-05-02 16:03     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-02 16:07     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-05-02 16:42       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-05-02 16:55         ` Daniel Colascione
2018-05-03 16:12       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-03 16:12         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-03 16:22         ` Daniel Colascione
2018-05-03 18:04           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-03 18:04             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-05-03 16:48         ` Joel Fernandes
2018-05-03 17:18           ` Daniel Colascione
2018-05-03 17:46             ` Joel Fernandes
2018-05-03 17:46               ` Joel Fernandes
2018-05-04 22:17               ` Ben Maurer
2018-05-04 22:17                 ` Ben Maurer
2018-05-02 17:22   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-02 18:27     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-05-02 20:22       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-02 20:37         ` Daniel Colascione
2018-05-03  1:15           ` Steven Rostedt
2018-05-03  8:49           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-05-06 10:03         ` Thomas Gleixner

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