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From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Segher Boessenkool' <segher@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org>
Cc: "linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org" <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>,
	Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>,
	"linux-sh@vger.kernel.org" <linux-sh@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Richard Russon (FlatCap)" <ldm@flatcap.org>,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>, Amitkumar Karwar <amitkarwar@gmail.com>,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@google.com>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
	linux-m68k <linux-m68k@vger.kernel.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"open list:SPARC + UltraSPARC (sparc/sparc64)" 
	<sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>, Stafford Horne <shorne@gmail.com>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@gmail.com>,
	Yoshinori Sato <ysato@users.osdn.me>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	"Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Kalle Valo <kvalo@codeaurora.org>,
	Vladimir Oltean <vladimir.oltean@nxp.com>,
	Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Jonas Bonn <jonas@southpole.se>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Ganapathi Bhat <ganapathi017@gmail.com>,
	Stefan Kristiansson <stefan.kristiansson@saunalahti.fi>,
	"linux-block@vger.kernel.org" <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	"openrisc@lists.librecores.org" <openrisc@lists.librecores.org>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>, "Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>,
	John Johansen <john.johansen@canonical.com>,
	Xinming Hu <huxinming820@gmail.com>,
	Vineet Gupta <vgupta@synopsys.com>,
	Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@google.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-ntfs-dev@lists.sourceforge.net" 
	<linux-ntfs-dev@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	"linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org" 
	<linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	"open list:BPF JIT for MIPS (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" 
	<netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"johannes@sipsolutions.net" <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	"open list:LINUX FOR POWERPC (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" 
	<linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	Sharvari Harisangam <sharvari.harisangam@nxp.com>
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 00/13] Unify asm/unaligned.h around struct helper
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:34:53 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <698cfc52a0d441f7b9f29424be82b2e8@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20211216185620.GP614@gate.crashing.org>

From: Segher Boessenkool
> Sent: 16 December 2021 18:56
...
> > The only remaining problem here is reinterpreting a char* pointer to a
> > u32*, e.g., for accessing the IP address in an Ethernet frame when
> > NET_IP_ALIGN == 2, which could suffer from the same UB problem again,
> > as I understand it.
> 
> The problem is never casting a pointer to pointer to character type, and
> then later back to an appriopriate pointer type.
> These things are both required to work.

I think that is true of 'void *', not 'char *'.
'char' is special in that 'strict aliasing' doesn't apply to it.
(Which is actually a pain sometimes.)

> The problem always is accessing something as if it
> was something of another type, which is not valid C.  This however is
> exactly what -fno-strict-aliasing allows, so that works as well.

IIRC the C language only allows you to have pointers to valid data items.
(Since they can only be generated by the & operator on a valid item.)
Indirecting any other pointer is probably UB!

This (sort of) allows the compiler to 'look through' casts to find
what the actual type is (or might be).
It can then use that information to make optimisation choices.
This has caused grief with memcpy() calls that are trying to copy
a structure that the coder knows is misaligned to an aligned buffer.

So while *(unaligned_ptr *)char_ptr probably has to work.
If the compiler can see *(unaligned_ptr *)(char *)int_ptr it can
assume the alignment of the 'int_ptr' and do a single aligned access.

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Segher Boessenkool' <segher@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org>
Cc: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>,
	Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>,
	"linux-sh@vger.kernel.org" <linux-sh@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Richard Russon \(FlatCap\)" <ldm@flatcap.org>,
	linux-m68k <linux-m68k@vger.kernel.org>,
	Amitkumar Karwar <amitkarwar@gmail.com>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@google.com>,
	"open list:BPF JIT for MIPS \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)"
	<netdev@vger.kernel.org>, Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"open list:SPARC + UltraSPARC \(sparc/sparc64\)"
	<sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@google.com>,
	Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@gmail.com>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	Vladimir Oltean <vladimir.oltean@nxp.com>,
	Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Jonas Bonn <jonas@southpole.se>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Ganapathi Bhat <ganapathi017@gmail.com>,
	"open list:LINUX FOR POWERPC \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)"
	<linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	Stefan Kristiansson <stefan.kristiansson@saunalahti.fi>,
	"linux-block@vger.kernel.org" <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	"openrisc@lists.librecores.org" <openrisc@lists.librecores.org>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Stafford Horne <shorne@gmail.com>,
	Kalle Valo <kvalo@codeaurora.org>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@kernel.org>,
	John Johansen <john.johansen@canonical.com>,
	Xinming Hu <huxinming820@gmail.com>,
	Yoshinori Sato <ysato@users.osdn.me>,
	"linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org" <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-ntfs-dev@lists.sourceforge.net"
	<linux-ntfs-dev@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	"linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org"
	<linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	Vineet Gupta <vgupta@synopsys.com>,
	"johannes@sipsolutions.net" <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Sharvari Harisangam <sharvari.harisangam@nxp.com>
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 00/13] Unify asm/unaligned.h around struct helper
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:34:53 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <698cfc52a0d441f7b9f29424be82b2e8@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20211216185620.GP614@gate.crashing.org>

From: Segher Boessenkool
> Sent: 16 December 2021 18:56
...
> > The only remaining problem here is reinterpreting a char* pointer to a
> > u32*, e.g., for accessing the IP address in an Ethernet frame when
> > NET_IP_ALIGN == 2, which could suffer from the same UB problem again,
> > as I understand it.
> 
> The problem is never casting a pointer to pointer to character type, and
> then later back to an appriopriate pointer type.
> These things are both required to work.

I think that is true of 'void *', not 'char *'.
'char' is special in that 'strict aliasing' doesn't apply to it.
(Which is actually a pain sometimes.)

> The problem always is accessing something as if it
> was something of another type, which is not valid C.  This however is
> exactly what -fno-strict-aliasing allows, so that works as well.

IIRC the C language only allows you to have pointers to valid data items.
(Since they can only be generated by the & operator on a valid item.)
Indirecting any other pointer is probably UB!

This (sort of) allows the compiler to 'look through' casts to find
what the actual type is (or might be).
It can then use that information to make optimisation choices.
This has caused grief with memcpy() calls that are trying to copy
a structure that the coder knows is misaligned to an aligned buffer.

So while *(unaligned_ptr *)char_ptr probably has to work.
If the compiler can see *(unaligned_ptr *)(char *)int_ptr it can
assume the alignment of the 'int_ptr' and do a single aligned access.

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: openrisc@lists.librecores.org
Subject: [OpenRISC] [PATCH v2 00/13] Unify asm/unaligned.h around struct helper
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:34:53 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <698cfc52a0d441f7b9f29424be82b2e8@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20211216185620.GP614@gate.crashing.org>

From: Segher Boessenkool
> Sent: 16 December 2021 18:56
...
> > The only remaining problem here is reinterpreting a char* pointer to a
> > u32*, e.g., for accessing the IP address in an Ethernet frame when
> > NET_IP_ALIGN == 2, which could suffer from the same UB problem again,
> > as I understand it.
> 
> The problem is never casting a pointer to pointer to character type, and
> then later back to an appriopriate pointer type.
> These things are both required to work.

I think that is true of 'void *', not 'char *'.
'char' is special in that 'strict aliasing' doesn't apply to it.
(Which is actually a pain sometimes.)

> The problem always is accessing something as if it
> was something of another type, which is not valid C.  This however is
> exactly what -fno-strict-aliasing allows, so that works as well.

IIRC the C language only allows you to have pointers to valid data items.
(Since they can only be generated by the & operator on a valid item.)
Indirecting any other pointer is probably UB!

This (sort of) allows the compiler to 'look through' casts to find
what the actual type is (or might be).
It can then use that information to make optimisation choices.
This has caused grief with memcpy() calls that are trying to copy
a structure that the coder knows is misaligned to an aligned buffer.

So while *(unaligned_ptr *)char_ptr probably has to work.
If the compiler can see *(unaligned_ptr *)(char *)int_ptr it can
assume the alignment of the 'int_ptr' and do a single aligned access.

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)


  reply	other threads:[~2021-12-17 12:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 98+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-05-14 10:00 [PATCH v2 00/13] Unify asm/unaligned.h around struct helper Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [OpenRISC] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 01/13] asm-generic: use asm-generic/unaligned.h for most architectures Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 02/13] openrisc: always use unaligned-struct header Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00   ` [OpenRISC] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 03/13] sh: remove unaligned access for sh4a Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:34   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-05-14 12:22     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-15 15:36       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-05-15 20:10         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 04/13] m68k: select CONFIG_HAVE_EFFICIENT_UNALIGNED_ACCESS Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 05/13] powerpc: use linux/unaligned/le_struct.h on LE power7 Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 11:48   ` Segher Boessenkool
2021-05-14 11:48     ` Segher Boessenkool
2021-05-14 13:02     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 06/13] asm-generic: unaligned: remove byteshift helpers Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 07/13] asm-generic: unaligned always use struct helpers Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-17 21:53   ` Eric Biggers
2021-05-17 21:53     ` Eric Biggers
2021-05-18  7:25     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-18  7:25       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-18 14:56       ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-18 14:56         ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-18 15:41         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-18 15:41           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-18 16:12           ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-18 16:12             ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-18 18:09             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2021-05-18 18:09               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2021-05-18 20:51             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-18 20:51               ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-18 21:31               ` Eric Biggers
2021-05-18 21:31                 ` Eric Biggers
2021-05-18 21:14         ` David Laight
2021-05-18 21:14           ` David Laight
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 08/13] partitions: msdos: fix one-byte get_unaligned() Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-17 10:28   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-05-17 10:44     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 09/13] apparmor: use get_unaligned() only for multi-byte words Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 10/13] mwifiex: re-fix for unaligned accesses Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-15  6:22   ` Kalle Valo
2021-05-15  9:01     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-15 18:23       ` Kalle Valo
2021-05-14 10:00 ` [PATCH v2 11/13] netpoll: avoid put_unaligned() on single character Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:01 ` [PATCH v2 12/13] asm-generic: uaccess: 1-byte access is always aligned Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-15 18:41   ` Randy Dunlap
2021-05-15 20:16     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:01 ` [PATCH v2 13/13] asm-generic: simplify asm/unaligned.h Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 10:35   ` David Laight
2021-05-14 17:32 ` [PATCH v2 00/13] Unify asm/unaligned.h around struct helper Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 17:32   ` [OpenRISC] " Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 17:32   ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 17:32   ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 18:51   ` Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 18:51     ` [OpenRISC] " Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 18:51     ` Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 18:51     ` Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 19:22     ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 19:22       ` [OpenRISC] " Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 19:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 19:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 19:45       ` Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 19:45         ` [OpenRISC] " Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 19:45         ` Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 19:45         ` Vineet Gupta
2021-05-14 20:19         ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 20:19           ` [OpenRISC] " Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 20:19           ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 20:19           ` Linus Torvalds
2021-05-14 19:31   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 19:31     ` [OpenRISC] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 19:31     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-05-14 19:31     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-12-16 17:29 ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-12-16 17:29   ` [OpenRISC] " Ard Biesheuvel
2021-12-16 17:29   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-12-16 17:42   ` Linus Torvalds
2021-12-16 17:42     ` [OpenRISC] " Linus Torvalds
2021-12-16 17:42     ` Linus Torvalds
2021-12-16 17:49   ` David Laight
2021-12-16 17:49     ` [OpenRISC] " David Laight
2021-12-16 17:49     ` David Laight
2021-12-16 18:56   ` Segher Boessenkool
2021-12-16 18:56     ` [OpenRISC] " Segher Boessenkool
2021-12-16 18:56     ` Segher Boessenkool
2021-12-17 12:34     ` David Laight [this message]
2021-12-17 12:34       ` [OpenRISC] " David Laight
2021-12-17 12:34       ` David Laight
2021-12-17 13:35       ` Segher Boessenkool
2021-12-17 13:35         ` [OpenRISC] " Segher Boessenkool
2021-12-17 13:35         ` Segher Boessenkool

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