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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: "the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-arch@vger.kernel.org" <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Nadav Amit <nadav.amit@gmail.com>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Brian Gerst <brgerst@gmail.com>,
	"kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com" 
	<kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com>, Jann Horn <jann@thejh.net>,
	Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@de.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/13] Virtually mapped stacks with guard pages (x86, core)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:01:40 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFyahpuy94qqECj0ZA6oD3Vy0r=gY2cH8_dB1a-4XURV2Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <cover.1466466093.git.luto@kernel.org>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On my laptop, this adds about 1.5µs of overhead to task creation,
> which seems to be mainly caused by vmalloc inefficiently allocating
> individual pages even when a higher-order page is available on the
> freelist.

I really think that problem needs to be fixed before this should be merged.

The easy fix may be to just have a very limited re-use of these stacks
in generic code, rather than try to do anything fancy with multi-page
allocations. Just a few of these allocations held in reserve (perhaps
make the allocations percpu to avoid new locks).

It won't help for a thundering herd problem where you start tons of
new threads, but those don't tend to be short-lived ones anyway. In
contrast, I think one common case is the "run shell scripts" that runs
tons and tons of short-lived processes, and having a small "stack of
stacks" would probably catch that case very nicely. Even a
single-entry cache might be ok, but I see no reason to not make it be
perhaps three or four stacks per CPU.

Make the "thread create/exit" sequence go really fast by avoiding the
allocation/deallocation, and hopefully catching a hot cache and TLB
line too.

Performance is not something that we add later. If the first version
of the patch series doesn't perform well, it should not be considered
ready.

            Linus

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-arch@vger.kernel.org" <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Nadav Amit <nadav.amit@gmail.com>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Brian Gerst <brgerst@gmail.com>,
	"kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com"
	<kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com>, Jann Horn <jann@thejh.net>,
	Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@de.ibm.com>
Subject: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v3 00/13] Virtually mapped stacks with guard pages (x86, core)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:01:40 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFyahpuy94qqECj0ZA6oD3Vy0r=gY2cH8_dB1a-4XURV2Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <cover.1466466093.git.luto@kernel.org>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On my laptop, this adds about 1.5µs of overhead to task creation,
> which seems to be mainly caused by vmalloc inefficiently allocating
> individual pages even when a higher-order page is available on the
> freelist.

I really think that problem needs to be fixed before this should be merged.

The easy fix may be to just have a very limited re-use of these stacks
in generic code, rather than try to do anything fancy with multi-page
allocations. Just a few of these allocations held in reserve (perhaps
make the allocations percpu to avoid new locks).

It won't help for a thundering herd problem where you start tons of
new threads, but those don't tend to be short-lived ones anyway. In
contrast, I think one common case is the "run shell scripts" that runs
tons and tons of short-lived processes, and having a small "stack of
stacks" would probably catch that case very nicely. Even a
single-entry cache might be ok, but I see no reason to not make it be
perhaps three or four stacks per CPU.

Make the "thread create/exit" sequence go really fast by avoiding the
allocation/deallocation, and hopefully catching a hot cache and TLB
line too.

Performance is not something that we add later. If the first version
of the patch series doesn't perform well, it should not be considered
ready.

            Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-06-21  4:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 269+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-06-20 23:43 [PATCH v3 00/13] Virtually mapped stacks with guard pages (x86, core) Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 01/13] x86/mm/hotplug: Don't remove PGD entries in remove_pagetable() Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 02/13] x86/cpa: In populate_pgd, don't set the pgd entry until it's populated Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 03/13] x86/mm: Remove kernel_unmap_pages_in_pgd() and efi_cleanup_page_tables() Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21  9:53   ` Matt Fleming
2016-06-21  9:53     ` [kernel-hardening] " Matt Fleming
2016-06-21  9:53     ` Matt Fleming
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 04/13] mm: Track NR_KERNEL_STACK in KiB instead of number of stacks Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21  9:46   ` Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-21  9:46     ` [kernel-hardening] " Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-21  9:46     ` Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-21  9:46     ` Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-22  7:35   ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-22  7:35     ` [kernel-hardening] " Michal Hocko
2016-06-22  7:35     ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-22  7:35     ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 05/13] mm: Fix memcg stack accounting for sub-page stacks Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21  9:54   ` Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-21  9:54     ` [kernel-hardening] " Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-21  9:54     ` Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-21  9:54     ` Vladimir Davydov
2016-06-22  7:38   ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-22  7:38     ` [kernel-hardening] " Michal Hocko
2016-06-22  7:38     ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-22  7:38     ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 06/13] fork: Add generic vmalloced stack support Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21  7:30   ` Jann Horn
2016-06-21  7:30     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jann Horn
2016-06-21  7:30     ` Jann Horn
2016-06-21 16:59     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 16:59       ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 16:59       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 17:13       ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 17:13         ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-06-21 17:13         ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 17:28         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 17:28           ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 17:28           ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 18:32         ` [kernel-hardening] " Rik van Riel
2016-06-21 18:32           ` Rik van Riel
2016-06-21 19:44           ` [kernel-hardening] " Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21 19:44             ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21 19:43             ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 19:43               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 19:43               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-11 17:00           ` [kernel-hardening] " Andrey Ryabinin
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 07/13] x86/die: Don't try to recover from an OOPS on a non-default stack Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 08/13] x86/dumpstack: When OOPSing, rewind the stack before do_exit Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 09/13] x86/dumpstack: When dumping stack bytes due to OOPS, start with regs->sp Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 10/13] x86/dumpstack: Try harder to get a call trace on stack overflow Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 11/13] x86/dumpstack/64: Handle faults when printing the "Stack:" part of an OOPS Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 12/13] x86/mm/64: Enable vmapped stacks Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43 ` [PATCH v3 13/13] x86/mm: Improve stack-overflow #PF handling Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-20 23:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21  4:01 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2016-06-21  4:01   ` [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v3 00/13] Virtually mapped stacks with guard pages (x86, core) Linus Torvalds
2016-06-21  4:01   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-21 16:45   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 16:45     ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 16:45     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 17:16     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-21 17:16       ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-21 17:16       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-21 17:27       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 17:27         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 17:27         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 18:12         ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 18:12           ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-06-21 18:12           ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 18:19           ` [kernel-hardening] " Rik van Riel
2016-06-21 18:19             ` Rik van Riel
2016-06-23  1:22   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23  1:22     ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23  1:22     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23  6:02     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23  6:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23  6:02       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 14:31       ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 14:31         ` [kernel-hardening] " Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 14:31         ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 16:30         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 16:30           ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 16:30           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 16:41           ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 16:41             ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 16:41             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 17:10             ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 17:10               ` [kernel-hardening] " Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 17:10               ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-09-06 16:19             ` Jann Horn
2016-09-06 16:19               ` [kernel-hardening] " Jann Horn
2016-09-06 16:19               ` Jann Horn
2016-09-06 16:40               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-09-06 16:40                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-09-06 16:40                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 17:03           ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 17:03             ` [kernel-hardening] " Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 17:03             ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 17:44             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 17:44               ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 17:44               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 17:52               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 17:52                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 17:52                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 18:00                 ` Kees Cook
2016-06-23 18:00                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-06-23 18:00                   ` Kees Cook
2016-06-23 18:54                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:54                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:54                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:12                 ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 18:12                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 18:12                   ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 18:55                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:55                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:55                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:46                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 18:46                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 18:46                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 19:08                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 19:08                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 19:08                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 18:53                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:53                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 18:53                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:09                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 19:09                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 19:09                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-23 19:13                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:13                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:13                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:17                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 19:17                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 19:17                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24  6:17                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24  6:17                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24  6:17                       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 12:25                       ` Brian Gerst
2016-06-24 12:25                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Brian Gerst
2016-06-24 12:25                         ` Brian Gerst
2016-06-24 17:21                         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:21                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:21                           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:40                           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:40                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:40                             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:47                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 17:47                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 17:47                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 17:56                               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:56                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:56                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 18:36                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 18:36                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 18:36                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 17:51                             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:51                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 17:51                               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 18:11                               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 18:11                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 18:11                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 20:25                                 ` Josh Poimboeuf
2016-06-24 20:25                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Josh Poimboeuf
2016-06-24 20:25                                   ` Josh Poimboeuf
2016-06-24 20:51                                   ` Josh Poimboeuf
2016-06-24 20:51                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Josh Poimboeuf
2016-06-24 20:51                                     ` Josh Poimboeuf
2016-06-24 20:53                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 20:53                                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 20:53                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 21:06                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 21:06                                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 21:06                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 21:25                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 21:25                                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 21:25                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 21:32                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 21:32                                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 21:32                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-24 21:34                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 21:34                                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-24 21:34                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-25  2:41                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-25  2:41                                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-25  2:41                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-25 23:19                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-25 23:19                                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-25 23:19                                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-25 23:30                                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-25 23:30                                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-25 23:30                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-26  1:23                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-26  1:23                                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-26  1:23                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 18:52               ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 18:52                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-23 18:52                 ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-24 14:05                 ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 14:05                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 14:05                   ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 15:06                   ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 15:06                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 15:06                     ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 15:06                     ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-24 20:22                     ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-24 20:22                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-24 20:22                       ` Oleg Nesterov
2016-06-27 10:36                       ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-27 10:36                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Michal Hocko
2016-06-27 10:36                         ` Michal Hocko
2016-06-23 19:11         ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:11           ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:11           ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:34           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 19:34             ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 19:34             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-06-23 19:46             ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:46               ` [kernel-hardening] " Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-23 19:46               ` Peter Zijlstra
2016-06-21  9:24 ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21  9:24   ` [kernel-hardening] " Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21  9:24   ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21 17:16   ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 17:16     ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-06-21 17:16     ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 18:02     ` [kernel-hardening] " Rik van Riel
2016-06-21 18:02       ` Rik van Riel
2016-06-21 18:05       ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 18:05         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 18:05         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 19:47     ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21 19:47       ` [kernel-hardening] " Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21 19:47       ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-21 19:47       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 19:47         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 19:47         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-06-21 20:18         ` Kees Cook
2016-06-21 20:18           ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-06-21 20:18           ` Kees Cook

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