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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: "Dr. Greg" <greg@enjellic.com>
Cc: Sean Christopherson <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	x86@kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, dave.hansen@intel.com,
	nhorman@redhat.com, npmccallum@redhat.com,
	haitao.huang@intel.com, andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com,
	kai.svahn@intel.com, bp@alien8.de, josh@joshtriplett.org,
	luto@kernel.org, kai.huang@intel.com, rientjes@google.com,
	cedric.xing@intel.com, puiterwijk@redhat.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v29 00/20] Intel SGX foundations
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 23:27:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200524212719.GA1192@bug> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200514091637.GA25156@wind.enjellic.com>

Hi!

> > > At the very least a modular form of the driver should be
> > > considered that would allow alternate implementations.  Sean
> > > indicated that there was a 'kludgy' approach that would allow an
> > > alternate modular implementation alongside the in-kernel driver.
> > > I believe that Andy has already indicated that may not be an
> > > advisable approach.
> 
> > Modularizing the the driver does nothing for your use case.  The
> > "driver" is a relatively lightweight wrapper, removing that is akin
> > to making /dev/sgx/enclave inaccessible, i.e. it doesn't make the

Well... SGX is proprietary feature of Intel. I don't see any effort for standartization
so that other architectures could use it. Yet it provides userspace interface...

You clearly want distros to enable it, but that will waste memory on non-Intel systems.

That is not good.

> Here in a nutshell is the paradox the kernel faces:
> 
> No one seems to be disputing the fact that the primary focus of this
> driver will be to support the notion of 'runtime encryption' and
> Confidential Computing.  The whole premise of the concept and economic
> predicate of the initiative is that the owner/manager of the platform
> has no visibility into what is being done on the platform.

Well, in my eyes preventing owner of the machine from accessing all its parts is
pretty questionable.

Physics says it is impossible, many tried, and many failed. Why it should be
different this time?

> If the Linux community believes that standard platform security
> controls can make qualitatively good judgements on what enclave based
> execution is doing, it is effectively making the statement that the
> very concept of runtime encryption and by extension Confidential
> Computing is invalid.

And yes, I believe that concept of Confidential Computing is invalid.. and we
should simply not merge this support.

It provides false sense of security, and I'm afraid big companies will try to force
people to use it. "DRM, now with hardware support". "Finally advertisments you can
not skip". "Just run this piece of code on your machine to access your bank account.
Trust us!"

:-(.

									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-05-24 21:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-04-21 21:52 [PATCH v29 00/20] Intel SGX foundations Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:52 ` [PATCH v29 01/20] x86/sgx: Update MAINTAINERS Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:52 ` [PATCH v29 02/20] x86/cpufeatures: x86/msr: Add Intel SGX hardware bits Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:52 ` [PATCH v29 03/20] x86/cpufeatures: x86/msr: Intel SGX Launch Control " Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 04/20] x86/mm: x86/sgx: Signal SIGSEGV with PF_SGX Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 05/20] x86/sgx: Add SGX microarchitectural data structures Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 06/20] x86/sgx: Add wrappers for ENCLS leaf functions Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 07/20] x86/cpu/intel: Detect SGX support Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 08/20] x86/sgx: Enumerate and track EPC sections Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 09/20] x86/sgx: Add functions to allocate and free EPC pages Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 10/20] mm: Introduce vm_ops->may_mprotect() Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 11/20] x86/sgx: Linux Enclave Driver Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-08 19:09   ` Sean Christopherson
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 12/20] x86/sgx: Add provisioning Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 13/20] x86/sgx: Add a page reclaimer Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 14/20] x86/sgx: ptrace() support for the SGX driver Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-06 21:50   ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-13 21:40     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 15/20] x86/vdso: Add support for exception fixup in vDSO functions Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 16/20] x86/fault: Add helper function to sanitize error code Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 17/20] x86/traps: Attempt to fixup exceptions in vDSO before signaling Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 18/20] x86/vdso: Implement a vDSO for Intel SGX enclave call Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 19/20] selftests/x86: Add a selftest for SGX Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-21 21:53 ` [PATCH v29 20/20] docs: x86/sgx: Document SGX micro architecture and kernel internals Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-22 16:48 ` [PATCH v29 00/20] Intel SGX foundations Connor Kuehl
2020-04-29  5:22   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-26 16:57 ` Dr. Greg
2020-04-29  5:23   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-29 15:14     ` Sean Christopherson
2020-04-30  3:59       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-02 23:05         ` Dr. Greg
2020-05-03  0:48           ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-05-04  9:34             ` Dr. Greg
2020-04-29 15:30   ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-08  0:40     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-05-07  0:41   ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-05-08 19:02     ` Dr. Greg
2020-05-08 19:56       ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-14  9:16         ` Dr. Greg
2020-05-14 16:15           ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-14 16:20             ` Borislav Petkov
2020-05-14 19:29               ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-05-15  9:28               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-15  9:42                 ` Borislav Petkov
2020-05-15 16:24                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-15  0:09             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-15 19:54           ` Nathaniel McCallum
2020-05-16  9:58             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-24 21:27           ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2020-05-26  8:16             ` David Laight
2020-04-26 17:03 ` Dr. Greg
2020-04-29 15:27 ` Jethro Beekman
2020-04-30  3:46   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-30  7:19     ` Jethro Beekman
2020-04-30  8:23       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-04-30 14:12         ` Jethro Beekman
2020-05-06 12:16           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-06 16:39 ` Jordan Hand
2020-05-07 18:06   ` Dr. Greg
2020-05-08 16:16     ` Jordan Hand
2020-05-13 23:09   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-06 21:42 ` Nathaniel McCallum
2020-05-06 22:14   ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-07  5:02     ` Haitao Huang
2020-05-07 16:49       ` Nathaniel McCallum
2020-05-07 19:34         ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-07 22:35           ` Haitao Huang
2020-05-08  0:25             ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-28 11:15               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-28 11:19                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-07 22:31         ` Haitao Huang
2020-05-13 22:14   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-13 22:18     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-14  6:31     ` Jethro Beekman
2020-05-14 19:30     ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-05-15  0:22       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-08 19:08 ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-14 19:05   ` Seth Moore
2020-05-15  0:23     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-12 11:55 ` Hui, Chunyang
2020-05-12 16:51   ` Dr. Greg
2020-05-14 10:49   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2020-05-16  8:53 ` [PATCH] x86/cpu/intel: Add nosgx kernel parameter Jarkko Sakkinen

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