Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Daniel Goller]

i tried 2.4.21-rc6 as i was told it might fix the mouse stalling on
heavy disk IO problem and i would like to report that it DOES fix them
for the most part, even certain compiles/benchmarks/stress tests that
could stall my pc for seconds now affect the mouse for mere fractions of
one second, situations that used to cause short stalls are now a thing
of the past

2.4.21-rc6 is the best kernel i have tried to date and i have tried many
on my quest to get a smooth mouse

i dont subscribe to lkml, so if you have questions please CC me
personally

hope this input is helpful

Daniel

morfic

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Mike Fedyk]

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 02:08:51PM -0500, Daniel Goller wrote:
> i tried 2.4.21-rc6 as i was told it might fix the mouse stalling on
> heavy disk IO problem and i would like to report that it DOES fix them
> for the most part, even certain compiles/benchmarks/stress tests that
> could stall my pc for seconds now affect the mouse for mere fractions of
> one second, situations that used to cause short stalls are now a thing
> of the past
> 
> 2.4.21-rc6 is the best kernel i have tried to date and i have tried many
> on my quest to get a smooth mouse

There are reports that 2.4.18 also "fixed" the problems with the mouse.  Can
you verify?

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Daniel Goller]

On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 15:52, Mike Fedyk wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 02:08:51PM -0500, Daniel Goller wrote:
> > i tried 2.4.21-rc6 as i was told it might fix the mouse stalling on
> > heavy disk IO problem and i would like to report that it DOES fix them
> > for the most part, even certain compiles/benchmarks/stress tests that
> > could stall my pc for seconds now affect the mouse for mere fractions of
> > one second, situations that used to cause short stalls are now a thing
> > of the past
> > 
> > 2.4.21-rc6 is the best kernel i have tried to date and i have tried many
> > on my quest to get a smooth mouse
> 
> There are reports that 2.4.18 also "fixed" the problems with the mouse.  Can
> you verify?


sorry i never ran a 2.4.18 kernel, can't comment on that

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Michael Frank]

On Saturday 31 May 2003 15:06, Daniel Goller wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 15:52, Mike Fedyk wrote:
> > On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 02:08:51PM -0500, Daniel Goller 
wrote:
> > > i tried 2.4.21-rc6 as i was told it might fix the
> > > mouse stalling on heavy disk IO problem and i would
> > > like to report that it DOES fix them for the most
> > > part, even certain compiles/benchmarks/stress tests
> > > that could stall my pc for seconds now affect the
> > > mouse for mere fractions of one second, situations
> > > that used to cause short stalls are now a thing of
> > > the past
> > >
> > > 2.4.21-rc6 is the best kernel i have tried to date
> > > and i have tried many on my quest to get a smooth
> > > mouse
> >
> > There are reports that 2.4.18 also "fixed" the problems
> > with the mouse.  Can you verify?
>

Yes, it performs similar to -rc6 but not nearly as good as 
2.5.70.

On 2.5.70 the mouse is really smooth all the time, scrollong 
of large pages in opera is fairly smooth most the time also 
with large disk io loads such as the script i posted 
earlier.

Regards
Michael

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Daniel Goller]

On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 06:12, Michael Frank wrote:
> On Saturday 31 May 2003 15:06, Daniel Goller wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 15:52, Mike Fedyk wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 02:08:51PM -0500, Daniel Goller 
> wrote:
> > > > i tried 2.4.21-rc6 as i was told it might fix the
> > > > mouse stalling on heavy disk IO problem and i would
> > > > like to report that it DOES fix them for the most
> > > > part, even certain compiles/benchmarks/stress tests
> > > > that could stall my pc for seconds now affect the
> > > > mouse for mere fractions of one second, situations
> > > > that used to cause short stalls are now a thing of
> > > > the past
> > > >
> > > > 2.4.21-rc6 is the best kernel i have tried to date
> > > > and i have tried many on my quest to get a smooth
> > > > mouse
> > >
> > > There are reports that 2.4.18 also "fixed" the problems
> > > with the mouse.  Can you verify?
> >
> 
> Yes, it performs similar to -rc6 but not nearly as good as 
> 2.5.70.
> 
> On 2.5.70 the mouse is really smooth all the time, scrollong 
> of large pages in opera is fairly smooth most the time also 
> with large disk io loads such as the script i posted 
> earlier.
> 
> Regards
> Michael
> 

unfortunately the radeon dri is broken in 2.5.70 so i havent tried that
much, need to see if someone already suggests a fix for this unused int
(it seems unused to me, after a *quick* look through the file) i guess i
will have to subscribe now to lkml

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Michael Frank]

On Thursday 05 June 2003 05:54, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
>
> > > Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?
> >
> > well, even if you mean Marc Wilson, I also have to say something (as I've
> > written in my previous email some days ago)
> >
> > The pauses/stops are _a lot_ less than w/o the fix but they are _not_
> > gone. Tested with 2.4.21-rc6.
>
> If hangs are not worse than 2.4.20, then I'd go ahead with release....
>
> 									
I have -rc6 running on a P4 for a few days, doing the test script, 
compiles, Opera and found it to be comparable to 2.4.18.

It also does well on slower machines of about 1/4 the the CPU and disk
bandwidth. 

IMHO, interactivity is reasonable (again just IMHO), and others
may disagree.

-- 
Powered by linux-2.5.70-mm3
My current linux related activities in rough order of priority:
- Testing of 2.4/2.5 kernel interactivity
- Testing of Swsusp for 2.4
- Testing of Opera 7.11 emphasizing interactivity
- Research of NFS i/o errors during transfer 2.4>2.5
- Learning 2.5 series kernel debugging with kgdb - it's in the -mm tree
- Studying 2.5 series serial and ide drivers, ACPI, S3
* Input and feedback is always welcome *

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?
> well, even if you mean Marc Wilson, I also have to say something (as I've 
> written in my previous email some days ago)
> 
> The pauses/stops are _a lot_ less than w/o the fix but they are _not_ gone. 
> Tested with 2.4.21-rc6.

If hangs are not worse than 2.4.20, then I'd go ahead with release....

									Pavel
-- 
When do you have a heart between your knees?
[Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?]

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Jakob Oestergaard]

On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:30:27AM +0800, Michael Frank wrote:
...
> >
> > Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?
> 
> -rc6 is better - comparable to 2.4.18 in what I have seen with my script.  

I've run 2.4.20 for a long time, and have been seriously plagued with
the I/O stalls.

On a file server (details below) here I upgraded to 2.4.21-rc6
yesterday.

The I/O stalls have *almost* gone away.

Best of all, we still have our data intact  ;)

Server data:
  ~130 GB data on a ~150 GB ext3fs with >1 million files
  Software RAID-0+1 on four IDE disks
  Two promise controllers 1x20262 1x20269
  1x Intel eepro100, 1x Intel e1000
  dual PIII, half a gig of memory
  NFS server (mainly v3, many different clients)

> 
> After the long obscure problems since 2.4.19x, -rc6 could use serious 
> stress-testing. 

This server rarely has load below 1, but frequently above 15.  It may
run some compilers and linkers locally, but most of the load comes from
NFS serving.

So far it's been running for 28 hours with that kind of load.  Nothing
suspicious in the dmesg yet.

I will of course let you all know if it falls on it's knees.


So far it's all thumbs-up from me!   There may still be an occational
stall here and there, but compared to 2.4.20 this is heaven (it really
was unbelievably annoying having your emacs stall for 10 seconds every
30 seonds when someone was linking on the cluster)  :)

A big *thank*you* to Marcelo for deciding to include a fix for the I/O
stalls!

-- 
................................................................
:   jakob@unthought.net   : And I see the elder races,         :
:.........................: putrid forms of man                :
:   Jakob Østergaard      : See him rise and claim the earth,  :
:        OZ9ABN           : his downfall is at hand.           :
:.........................:............{Konkhra}...............:

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc Wilson]

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 01:02:45PM -0300, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?

Yes, with -rc6, and this:

rei $ dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/mwilson/largefile bs=16384 count=131072

The mouse starts skipping soon after the box starts swapping.  It
eventually catches up, but then when I start up another application, it
starts again.

I have the test running as I type this e-mail in mutt (with vim as the
editor), and there are noticeable pauses where I'm typing, but there isn't
anything happening on the screen.

It's *much* better than it was with my prior kernel (-rc2), but it's most
definately still there.

Anyone got any other test they want me to make on the box?

-- 
 Marc Wilson |     You're a card which will have to be dealt with.
 msw@cox.net |

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc-Christian Petersen]

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 23:12, J.A. Magallon wrote:

Hi J.A.,

> One vote in the opposite sense (I know, nobody uses plain rc6 ???)
> I am using a -jam kernel (-aa with some additional patches), and I did
> not notice anything. Dual PII box with 900 Mb, as buffers were filling
> memory, no stalls. Just a very small (less than half a second) jump in the
> cursor under gnome when the memory got full, and then smooth again.
> I use pointer-focus and was rapidly moving the pointer from window to
> window to change focus and response was ok. Launching an aterm was instant.
once again for you ;-)

-aa is using low latency elevator! Pauses/Stops are more less with it.

ciao, Marc

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[J.A. Magallon]

On 06.03, Anders Karlsson wrote:
> Good Evening,
> 
> On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 18:03, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:
> > On Tuesday 03 June 2003 18:59, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:
> > 
> > Hi again,
> > 
> > > well, very easy one:
> > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/largefile bs=16384 count=131072
> > > then use your mouse, your apps, switch between them, use them, _w/o_
> > > pauses, delay, stops or kinda that. If _that_ will work flawlessly for
> > > everyone, then it is fixed, if not, it _needs_ to be fixed.
> > I forgot to mention. If you have more than 2GB free memory (the above one will 
> > create a 2GB file), the test is useless.
> > 
> > Have less memory free, so the machine will swap, doesn't matter if the same 
> > disk or another or whatever!
> 
> Would it count if I said I run 2.4.21-rc6-ac1 and had 768MB RAM, ended
> up using about 250MB swap and when I today suspended VMware and closed a
> few gnome-terminals, Galeon and Evolution, the mouse cursor would not
> move, then jump half way across the screen after a second, then 'stick'
> again before doing another jump.
> 

One vote in the opposite sense (I know, nobody uses plain rc6 ???)
I am using a -jam kernel (-aa with some additional patches), and I did
not notice anything. Dual PII box with 900 Mb, as buffers were filling
memory, no stalls. Just a very small (less than half a second) jump in the
cursor under gnome when the memory got full, and then smooth again.
I use pointer-focus and was rapidly moving the pointer from window to
window to change focus and response was ok. Launching an aterm was instant.

-- 
J.A. Magallon <jamagallon@able.es>      \                 Software is like sex:
werewolf.able.es                         \           It's better when it's free
Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (Cooker) for i586
Linux 2.4.21-rc6-jam1 (gcc 3.2.3 (Mandrake Linux 9.2 3.2.3-1mdk))

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Anders Karlsson]

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Good Evening,

On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 18:03, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:
> On Tuesday 03 June 2003 18:59, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> > well, very easy one:
> > dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/largefile bs=16384 count=131072
> > then use your mouse, your apps, switch between them, use them, _w/o_
> > pauses, delay, stops or kinda that. If _that_ will work flawlessly for
> > everyone, then it is fixed, if not, it _needs_ to be fixed.
> I forgot to mention. If you have more than 2GB free memory (the above one will 
> create a 2GB file), the test is useless.
> 
> Have less memory free, so the machine will swap, doesn't matter if the same 
> disk or another or whatever!

Would it count if I said I run 2.4.21-rc6-ac1 and had 768MB RAM, ended
up using about 250MB swap and when I today suspended VMware and closed a
few gnome-terminals, Galeon and Evolution, the mouse cursor would not
move, then jump half way across the screen after a second, then 'stick'
again before doing another jump.

I thought it sounded a little like what you are describing. If more
details are required, let me know and I will try and collect what is
asked for.

Regards,

-- 
Anders Karlsson <anders@trudheim.com>
Trudheim Technology Limited

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Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Michael Frank]

On Wednesday 04 June 2003 00:59, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:
> On Tuesday 03 June 2003 18:30, Michael Frank wrote:
> well, very easy one:
>
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/largefile bs=16384 count=131072

Got that already - more flexible:

http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0305.3/1291.html

Breaks anything >= 2.4.19 < rc6 in no time.

We need more - any ideas

Reagards
Michael

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc-Christian Petersen]

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 18:59, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:

Hi again,

> well, very easy one:
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/largefile bs=16384 count=131072
> then use your mouse, your apps, switch between them, use them, _w/o_
> pauses, delay, stops or kinda that. If _that_ will work flawlessly for
> everyone, then it is fixed, if not, it _needs_ to be fixed.
I forgot to mention. If you have more than 2GB free memory (the above one will 
create a 2GB file), the test is useless.

Have less memory free, so the machine will swap, doesn't matter if the same 
disk or another or whatever!

ciao, Marc

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc-Christian Petersen]

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 18:30, Michael Frank wrote:

Hi Michael,

> > Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?
> -rc6 is better - comparable to 2.4.18 in what I have seen with my script.
> After the long obscure problems since 2.4.19x, -rc6 could use serious
> stress-testing.
> User level testing is not sufficient here - it's just like playing
> roulette.
> By serious stress-testing I mean:
> Everone testing comes up with  one dedicated "tough test"
> which _must_ be reproducible (program, script) along his line of
> expertise/application.

well, very easy one:

dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/largefile bs=16384 count=131072

then use your mouse, your apps, switch between them, use them, _w/o_ pauses, 
delay, stops or kinda that. If _that_ will work flawlessly for everyone, then 
it is fixed, if not, it _needs_ to be fixed.

ciao, Marc

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Matthias Mueller]

On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:30:27AM +0800, Michael Frank wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 June 2003 00:02, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> -rc6 is better - comparable to 2.4.18 in what I have seen with my script.  
> 
> After the long obscure problems since 2.4.19x, -rc6 could use serious 
> stress-testing. 
> 
> User level testing is not sufficient here - it's just like playing roulette.
> 
> By serious stress-testing I mean:
> 
> Everone testing comes up with  one dedicated "tough test" 
> which _must_ be reproducible (program, script) along his line of 
> expertise/application.
> 
> Two or more of these independent tests are run in combination.

Agreed and I'm willing to run test-scripts on my system, that has these
hangs (long ones with 2.4.19-pre1 to 2.4.21-rc5 and only short ones with
2.4.21-rc6). But at the moment I have neither time nor enough knowledge to
write a test to reproduce it.

So if someone comes up with a suitable test skript, I'm happy to try it
and use it on different kernel versions.

Bye,
Matthias
-- 
Matthias.Mueller@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
Rechenzentrum Universitaet Karlsruhe
Abteilung Netze

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Michael Frank]

On Wednesday 04 June 2003 00:02, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2003, Marc Wilson wrote:
> > On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 06:34:48AM +0100, Riley Williams wrote:
> > > The basic problem there is that any mail client needs to know
> > > just how many messages are in a particular folder to handle that
> > > folder, and the only way to do this is to count them all. That's
> > > what takes the time when one opens a large folder.
> >
> > No, the basic problem there is that the kernel is deadlocking.  Read the
> > VERY long thread for the details.
> >
> > I think I have enough on the ball to be able to tell the difference
> > between mutt opening a folder and counting messages, with a counter and
> > percentage indicator advancing, and mutt sitting there deadlocked with
> > the HD activity light stuck on and all the rest of X stuck tight.
> >
> > And it just happened again, so -rc6 is no sure fix.  What did y'all that
> > reported the problem had gone away do, patch -rc4 with the akpm patches?
> > ^_^
>
> Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?

-rc6 is better - comparable to 2.4.18 in what I have seen with my script.  

After the long obscure problems since 2.4.19x, -rc6 could use serious 
stress-testing. 

User level testing is not sufficient here - it's just like playing roulette.

By serious stress-testing I mean:

Everone testing comes up with  one dedicated "tough test" 
which _must_ be reproducible (program, script) along his line of 
expertise/application.

Two or more of these independent tests are run in combination.

This method should increase the coverage drastically.

Regards
Michael

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc-Christian Petersen]

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 18:02, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:

Hi Marcelo,

> Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?
well, even if you mean Marc Wilson, I also have to say something (as I've 
written in my previous email some days ago)

The pauses/stops are _a lot_ less than w/o the fix but they are _not_ gone. 
Tested with 2.4.21-rc6.

ciao, Marc

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marcelo Tosatti]

On Wed, 28 May 2003, Marc Wilson wrote:

> On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 06:34:48AM +0100, Riley Williams wrote:
> > The basic problem there is that any mail client needs to know
> > just how many messages are in a particular folder to handle that
> > folder, and the only way to do this is to count them all. That's
> > what takes the time when one opens a large folder.
>
> No, the basic problem there is that the kernel is deadlocking.  Read the
> VERY long thread for the details.
>
> I think I have enough on the ball to be able to tell the difference between
> mutt opening a folder and counting messages, with a counter and percentage
> indicator advancing, and mutt sitting there deadlocked with the HD activity
> light stuck on and all the rest of X stuck tight.
>
> And it just happened again, so -rc6 is no sure fix.  What did y'all that
> reported the problem had gone away do, patch -rc4 with the akpm patches?
> ^_^

Ok, so you can reproduce the hangs reliably EVEN with -rc6, Marc?

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Georg Nikodym]

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On Wed, 28 May 2003 21:55:39 -0300 (BRT)
Marcelo Tosatti <marcelo@conectiva.com.br> wrote:

> Here goes -rc6. I've decided to delay 2.4.21 a bit and try Andrew's
> fix for the IO stalls/deadlocks.

While others may be dubious about the efficacy of this patch, I've been
running -rc6 on my laptop now since sometime last night and have seen
nothing odd.

In case anybody cares, I'm using both ide and a ieee1394 (for a large
external drive [which implies scsi]) and I do a _lot_ of big work with
BK so I was seeing the problem within hours previously.

-g

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Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Con Kolivas]

On Thu, 29 May 2003 10:55, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here goes -rc6. I've decided to delay 2.4.21 a bit and try Andrew's fix
> for the IO stalls/deadlocks.
>
> Please test it.
>
>

> Andrew Morton <akpm@digeo.com>:
>   o Fix IO stalls and deadlocks

As this is only patches 1 and 2 from akpm's suggested changes I was wondering 
if my report got lost in the huge thread so I've included it here:

Ok patch combination final score for me is as follows in the presence of a 
large continuous write:
1 No change
2 No change
3 improvement++; minor hangs with reads
1+2 improvement+++; minor pauses with switching applications
1+2+3 improvement++++; no pauses

Applications may start up slowly that's fine. The mouse cursor keeps spinning 
and responding at all times though with 1+2+3 which it hasn't done in 2.4 for 
a year or so.

Is there a reason the 3rd patch was omitted?

Con

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Willy Tarreau]

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 10:38:04AM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 10:57:35PM -0700, Marc Wilson wrote:
> > No, the basic problem there is that the kernel is deadlocking.  Read the
> > VERY long thread for the details.
> 
> I didn't follow this thread, what's its subject, please ?

Hmmm never mind, I easily found it (yes, VERY long) !

Cheers,
Willy

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Willy Tarreau]

Hi !

On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 10:57:35PM -0700, Marc Wilson wrote:
> No, the basic problem there is that the kernel is deadlocking.  Read the
> VERY long thread for the details.

I didn't follow this thread, what's its subject, please ?
 
> I think I have enough on the ball to be able to tell the difference between
> mutt opening a folder and counting messages, with a counter and percentage
> indicator advancing, and mutt sitting there deadlocked with the HD activity
> light stuck on and all the rest of X stuck tight.

even on -rc3, I don't observe this behaviour. I tried from a cold cache, and
mutt took a little less than 3 seconds to open LKML's May folder (35 MB), and
progressed very smoothly. Since it's on my Alpha file server, I can't test
with X. But the I/O bandwidth and scheduler frequency (1024 HZ) may have an
impact.

Cheers,
Willy

RE: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Riley Williams]

Hi Marc.

 >> The basic problem there is that any mail client needs to know
 >> just how many messages are in a particular folder to handle that
 >> folder, and the only way to do this is to count them all. That's
 >> what takes the time when one opens a large folder.

 > No, the basic problem there is that the kernel is deadlocking.
 > Read the VERY long thread for the details.
 >
 > I think I have enough on the ball to be able to tell the difference
 > between mutt opening a folder and counting messages, with a counter
 > and percentage indicator advancing, and mutt sitting there
 > deadlocked with the HD activity light stuck on and all the rest of
 > X stuck tight.

I thought I was on the ball when a similar situation happened to me.
What I observed was that the counters and percentage indicators were
NOT advancing for about 30 seconds, and both would then jump up by
about 70 messages and the relevant percent rather than counting
smoothly through. It was only when I noticed those jumps that I went
back to basics and analysed the folder rather than the kernel.

However, I apologise profusely for assuming that my experience in what
to me appear to be similar circumstances to yours could have any sort
of bearing on the problem you are seeing.

 > And it just happened again, so -rc6 is no sure fix. What did y'all
 > that reported the problem had gone away do, patch -rc4 with the
 > akpm patches?

In my case, I fixed the problem by splitting the relevant folder up,
as stated in my previous message. However, such a solution apparently
doesn't work for you, so I'm unable to help any further.

Best wishes from Riley.
---
 * Nothing as pretty as a smile, nothing as ugly as a frown.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 27-May-2003

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc Wilson]

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 06:34:48AM +0100, Riley Williams wrote:
> The basic problem there is that any mail client needs to know
> just how many messages are in a particular folder to handle that
> folder, and the only way to do this is to count them all. That's
> what takes the time when one opens a large folder.

No, the basic problem there is that the kernel is deadlocking.  Read the
VERY long thread for the details.

I think I have enough on the ball to be able to tell the difference between
mutt opening a folder and counting messages, with a counter and percentage
indicator advancing, and mutt sitting there deadlocked with the HD activity
light stuck on and all the rest of X stuck tight.

And it just happened again, so -rc6 is no sure fix.  What did y'all that
reported the problem had gone away do, patch -rc4 with the akpm patches?
^_^

-- 
 Marc Wilson |     Fortune favors the lucky.
 msw@cox.net |

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Riley Williams]

Hi Marc.

 > I just had mutt > freeze cold on me though for ~15 sec when
 > it tried to open my debian-devel mbox (rather large file)
 > while brag was beating on the drive.
 >
 > <whimper>

I used to get the same effect when I asked pine to open the
Linux-Kernel mailbox on my system. I long since cured that by
having procmail split Linux-Kernel mail into multiple mailboxes,
one for each calendar week.

The basic problem there is that any mail client needs to know
just how many messages are in a particular folder to handle that
folder, and the only way to do this is to count them all. That's
what takes the time when one opens a large folder.

Best wishes from Riley.
---
 * Nothing as pretty as a smile, nothing as ugly as a frown.

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Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marc Wilson]

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 11:22:20AM +1000, Con Kolivas wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2003 10:55, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> > Andrew Morton <akpm@digeo.com>:
> >   o Fix IO stalls and deadlocks
> 
> For those interested these are patches 1 and 2 from akpm's proposed fixes in 
> the looong thread discussing this problem.

Are you sure?  I'm no C programmer, but it looks to me like all three
patches are in 21-rc6.

And I still see the stalls, although it's much reduced. :(  I just had mutt
freeze cold on me though for ~15 sec when it tried to open my debian-devel
mbox (rather lage file) while brag was beating on the drive.

<whimper>

-- 
 Marc Wilson |     You have had a long-term stimulation relative to
 msw@cox.net |     business.

Re: Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Con Kolivas]

On Thu, 29 May 2003 10:55, Marcelo Tosatti wrote:
> Here goes -rc6. I've decided to delay 2.4.21 a bit and try Andrew's fix
> for the IO stalls/deadlocks.

Good for you. Well done Marcelo!

> Please test it.

Yes everyone who gets these stalls please test it also!

> Andrew Morton <akpm@digeo.com>:
>   o Fix IO stalls and deadlocks

For those interested these are patches 1 and 2 from akpm's proposed fixes in 
the looong thread discussing this problem.

Con

Linux 2.4.21-rc6

[Marcelo Tosatti]

Hi,

Here goes -rc6. I've decided to delay 2.4.21 a bit and try Andrew's fix
for the IO stalls/deadlocks.

Please test it.


Summary of changes from v2.4.21-rc5 to v2.4.21-rc6
============================================

<c-d.hailfinger.kernel.2003@gmx.net>:
  o IDE config.in correctness

Andi Kleen <ak@muc.de>:
  o x86-64 fix for the ioport problem

Andrew Morton <akpm@digeo.com>:
  o Fix IO stalls and deadlocks

Marcelo Tosatti <marcelo@freak.distro.conectiva>:
  o Add missing via82xxx PCI ID
  o Backout erroneous fsync on last opener at close()
  o Changed EXTRAVERSION to -rc6