From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: "Theodore Tso" <tytso@mit.edu>,
"Ismail Dönmez" <ismail@pardus.org.tr>,
"Adrian Bunk" <bunk@kernel.org>,
"Bill Davidsen" <davidsen@tmr.com>,
"Marc Haber" <mh+linux-kernel@zugschlus.de>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Why does reading from /dev/urandom deplete entropy so much?
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:21:50 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20071209052149.GH15227@1wt.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20071208234612.GQ17037@thunk.org>
On Sat, Dec 08, 2007 at 06:46:12PM -0500, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 09, 2007 at 12:10:10AM +0200, Ismail Dönmez wrote:
> > > As long as /dev/random is readable for all users there's no reason to
> > > use /dev/urandom for a local DoS...
> >
> > Draining entropy in /dev/urandom means that insecure and possibly not random
> > data will be used and well thats a security bug if not a DoS bug.
>
> Actually in modern 2.6 kernels there are two separate output entropy
> pools for /dev/random and /dev/urandom. So assuming that the
> adversary doesn't know the contents of the current state of the
> entropy pool (i.e., the RNG is well seeded with entropy), you can read
> all you want from /dev/urandom and that won't give an adversary
> successful information to attack /dev/random.
Wouldn't it be possible to mix the data with the pid+uid of the reading
process so that even if another one tries to collect data from urandom,
he cannot predict what another process will get ? BTW, I think that the
tuple (pid,uid,timestamp of open) is unpredictable and uncontrollable
enough to provide one or even a few bits of entropy by itself.
Regards,
Willy
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-12-09 5:22 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-12-04 11:41 Why does reading from /dev/urandom deplete entropy so much? Marc Haber
2007-12-04 14:16 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-12-04 16:18 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-12-04 16:47 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-04 18:17 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-12-05 21:26 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-06 7:02 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-12-06 16:09 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-09 12:42 ` Marc Haber
2007-12-09 16:16 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-10 23:06 ` Marc Haber
2007-12-10 23:35 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-11 1:34 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-11 19:46 ` Phillip Susi
2007-12-11 20:02 ` Ray Lee
2007-12-12 5:34 ` David Schwartz
2007-12-04 16:54 ` Ray Lee
2007-12-04 16:55 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-04 18:02 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-04 19:50 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-04 20:36 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-04 20:40 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-04 20:48 ` Mike McGrath
2007-12-04 21:54 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-04 22:03 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-04 22:12 ` Mike McGrath
2007-12-04 22:28 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-04 21:08 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-04 21:18 ` Mike McGrath
2007-12-04 22:15 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-04 22:23 ` Mike McGrath
2007-12-04 22:33 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-05 14:26 ` Mike McGrath
2007-12-05 14:49 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-08 7:38 ` Jon Masters
2007-12-08 17:32 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-08 17:33 ` Mike McGrath
2007-12-08 17:49 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-08 17:54 ` Jon Masters
2007-12-08 18:15 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-08 18:24 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-08 19:36 ` entropy gathering (was Re: Why does reading from /dev/urandom deplete entropy so much?) Jeff Garzik
2007-12-08 19:53 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-08 20:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-12-08 20:19 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-08 21:07 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-12-08 20:31 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-08 20:47 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-12-08 20:42 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-12-08 23:47 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-09 1:07 ` Jon Masters
2007-12-08 18:31 ` Why does reading from /dev/urandom deplete entropy so much? Jeff Garzik
2007-12-08 20:26 ` David Schwartz
2007-12-08 17:43 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-08 17:47 ` Jon Masters
2007-12-08 18:05 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-08 17:45 ` Jon Masters
2007-12-10 16:37 ` Pavel Machek
2007-12-04 18:01 ` Matt Mackall
2007-12-06 20:08 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-12-05 12:23 ` Marc Haber
2007-12-05 12:29 ` Marc Haber
2007-12-05 13:33 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-05 15:10 ` Marc Haber
2007-12-06 19:32 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-12-08 22:03 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-12-08 22:10 ` Ismail Dönmez
2007-12-08 23:46 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-09 5:21 ` Willy Tarreau [this message]
2007-12-09 6:52 ` Jon Masters
2007-12-09 6:21 ` Ismail Dönmez
2007-12-09 12:31 ` Theodore Tso
2007-12-09 14:06 ` Ismail Dönmez
2007-12-11 15:42 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-12-20 22:27 ` Marc Haber
2007-12-26 18:27 ` Phillip Susi
2007-12-04 18:49 ` Russ Dill
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