RE: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

RE: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Schilling, Richard]

Interesting. .  .

What country is that? What is it about the computer that won't allow it to
run things other than Windows - or is the TV just mistaken (I suspect so)?


Richard Schilling

-----Original Message-----
From: lk [mailto:lk@ns1.Aniela.EU.ORG]

> Speaking of:
> A TV station in my country said that the most pirated products belong to
> M$ because computers cannot work wothout the GUI M$ windows provides.

> In my country about 75% percent of M$ software are illegal copies :)

RE: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[lk]

> Interesting. .  .
>
> What country is that? What is it about the computer that won't allow it to
> run things other than Windows - or is the TV just mistaken (I suspect so)?

You don't want to know the country. Yeap, you're right. They are all just
a bunch of morons.

>
>
> Richard Schilling
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lk [mailto:lk@ns1.Aniela.EU.ORG]
>
> > Speaking of:
> > A TV station in my country said that the most pirated products belong to
> > M$ because computers cannot work wothout the GUI M$ windows provides.
>
> > In my country about 75% percent of M$ software are illegal copies :)
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Fabrice Gautier]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:33:03 +0200
Alessandro Suardi <alessandro.suardi@oracle.com> wrote:

> 
> I have trouble in finding words to describe such blatant ignorance.


A Troll ?

oh.. geez, this was not something on the internet...

-- 
Fabrice Gautier <gautier@email.enstfr>

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Marco Colombo]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote:

> > I suppose they received some pression from M$, but if people read of a FUD
> > from a M$ employed, then they can guess what is going on, if it is a
> > newspaper usually telling facts in a correct way...
>
> It is common for newspaper staff to be corrupt, same with magazine people.
> Sometimes because people generally believe in a cause and are not impartial
> (which I've seen both pro and anti Linux btw) and sometimes because advertising
> revenue is a good thing.
>
> > The situation is going to be sad
>
> There is a saying in he UK 'You can fool all of the people some of the time,
> you can fool some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all of the
> people all of the time'. You only have to look at the incredibly dim view
> technical people take of most printed reviews to see that.
>
> Alan

The problem here is the audience. That was on a major Italian newspaper,
and targeted to business people. This is not technical FUD you can find
on some magazines ("NT is faster" and so on). I personally don't care
a bit, I've enough arguments to turn it into a holy war, at least.
But the article summary could be: "Microsoft legal problems are going to
end, Linus' ones are just starting."  A clear message to IT managers who
are about to decide how to invest thier IT budget.

As for the saying, see http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFT, and take 2 seconds
to realize what that exactly means (both as a fact and as concept)
and reconsider the part "but you cannot fool all of the people
all of the time" (just s/people/business people/ and re-read). B-)

.TM.
-- 
      ____/  ____/   /
     /      /       /			Marco Colombo
    ___/  ___  /   /		      Technical Manager
   /          /   /			 ESI s.r.l.
 _____/ _____/  _/		       Colombo@ESI.it

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[lk]

Speaking of:
A TV station in my country said that the most pirated products belong to
M$ because computers cannot work wothout the GUI M$ windows provides.

In my country about 75% percent of M$ software are illegal copies :)






> > I suppose they received some pression from M$, but if people read of a FUD
> > from a M$ employed, then they can guess what is going on, if it is a
> > newspaper usually telling facts in a correct way...
>
> It is common for newspaper staff to be corrupt, same with magazine people.
> Sometimes because people generally believe in a cause and are not impartial
> (which I've seen both pro and anti Linux btw) and sometimes because advertising
> revenue is a good thing.
>
> > The situation is going to be sad
>
> There is a saying in he UK 'You can fool all of the people some of the time,
> you can fool some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all of the
> people all of the time'. You only have to look at the incredibly dim view
> technical people take of most printed reviews to see that.
>
> Alan
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Kip Macy]

It's amazing what masquerades as news. It's also noteworthy that they
didn't bother to have a native speaker of English to edit the article:

An executive of another affiliated company said that he felt the passion
of IBM, which is determined to invest US$1 billion, this year alone, in
Linux. "IBM's passion really dragged us into this movement," he added.

He also said: "I can get a glimpse of the strong will of IBM, which has
recently regained its business strength, with an indication that 'there
shall be no free ride on Linux to be enhanced by IBM investing a huge
amount of money.'

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jonathan Corbet wrote:

> The Repubblica article was bad enough, but if you want serious kernel FUD
> you should see this bit of delight on AsiaBizTech:
> 
> 	http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/fw/133671
> 
> For example:
> 
>     Also, the casual attitude of Torvald [sic], which doesn't meet the
>     needs of the market and minds of investors, is one of the reasons that
>     investors have rapidly lost interest in Linux distributors and
>     Linux-related businesses.
> 
> Cool.  Linus caused the end of the stock bubble...
> 
> jon
> 
> Jonathan Corbet
> Executive editor, LWN.net
> corbet@lwn.net
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Rik van Riel]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jonathan Corbet wrote:

> The Repubblica article was bad enough, but if you want serious kernel FUD
> you should see this bit of delight on AsiaBizTech:
>
> 	http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/fw/133671

If anybody is interested in ressurecting
http://fud-counter.nl.linux.org/ please let
me know. I'll hand out CVS account to interested
parties.

> Cool.  Linus caused the end of the stock bubble...

*grin*

cheers,

Rik
--
Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release:
   "we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)"


		http://www.surriel.com/
http://www.conectiva.com/	http://distro.conectiva.com/

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Jonathan Corbet]

The Repubblica article was bad enough, but if you want serious kernel FUD
you should see this bit of delight on AsiaBizTech:

	http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/fw/133671

For example:

    Also, the casual attitude of Torvald [sic], which doesn't meet the
    needs of the market and minds of investors, is one of the reasons that
    investors have rapidly lost interest in Linux distributors and
    Linux-related businesses.

Cool.  Linus caused the end of the stock bubble...

jon

Jonathan Corbet
Executive editor, LWN.net
corbet@lwn.net

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Stephen Satchell]

At 01:34 PM 6/26/01 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
>It is common for newspaper staff to be corrupt, same with magazine people.
>Sometimes because people generally believe in a cause and are not impartial
>(which I've seen both pro and anti Linux btw) and sometimes because 
>advertising
>revenue is a good thing.

Alan, never attribute to conspiracy that which is adequately explained by 
stupidity.  You would be surprised how often newspaper and magazine 
reporters and their editors make gaffs like this with absolutely no intent 
of malice, or with the sole malice of wanting to write an article that will 
be "interesting" to a large readership while taking insufficient time to 
check all the facts.

When I worked at a magazine as a staffer, I was amazed when the 
editor-in-chief, in response to complaints about a columnist who "got it 
wrong" a lot, said that he kept the columnist on because his mistakes 
attracted readership.  "He gets TONS of letters, and the readers can't wait 
to see how he screws up next!"  Again, not by intent, but by incompetence.

For reporters, it's not a matter of "not caring," it's a matter of being 
required to knock out 15 articles in one day (not uncommon for a reporter 
on a major metropolitan newspaper) and not having to hand references that 
are willing to provide answers quickly.

Final comment:  Know what a well-adjusted paranoid is?  "Hey, they ARE out 
to get you, but it's nothing personal."

Satch

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Stephen Satchell]

At 02:33 PM 6/26/01 +0200, Alessandro Suardi wrote:
>To top this off with complete crap, after mentioning Gracenote:
>
>  "There may be a paradoxical situation: the [Microsoft] appeal judge
>   may restore the Microsoft monolith that judge Jackson wanted to
>   break in small pieces. And in the meantime who could end up under
>   accusation for excessive power and monopoly "temptation" would be
>   the arch-enemy Torvalds."
>
>
>I have trouble in finding words to describe such blatant ignorance.

The Internet Press Guild (http://www.netpress.org) is open to reporters and 
editors of any country, not just to US/Canada reporters.  When you write a 
letter to the editor in response to articles such as the one you quote in 
La Repubblica, be sure to mention this fact.

The Internet Press Guild was formed by Internet-savvy working reporters in 
response to the Time magazine CyberPorn article.  (They were chased off the 
newsgroup alt.internet.media-coverage when the SNR dropped like a 
rock.)  It's mission:  to provide a place where working press can check 
stories they are about to run regarding the Internet to avoid egg-on-face 
syndrome.

The IPG contains a few people close to Linux development, so while a story 
like this is a little beyond the original charter, a quick check would have 
avoided the gaff.

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Alan Cox]

> I suppose they received some pression from M$, but if people read of a FUD
> from a M$ employed, then they can guess what is going on, if it is a
> newspaper usually telling facts in a correct way...

It is common for newspaper staff to be corrupt, same with magazine people.
Sometimes because people generally believe in a cause and are not impartial
(which I've seen both pro and anti Linux btw) and sometimes because advertising
revenue is a good thing.

> The situation is going to be sad

There is a saying in he UK 'You can fool all of the people some of the time,
you can fool some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all of the
people all of the time'. You only have to look at the incredibly dim view
technical people take of most printed reviews to see that.

Alan

Re: When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Alessandro Suardi]

Luigi Genoni wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> a couple of weeks ago, in Italy, on the review Affari e Finanza, that
> comes with the newspaper "La Repubblica" (larepubblica@repubblica.it)
> one of the biggest newspapaer in
> Italy, there was an article with this title:
> "Also Linux goes in Tribunal"
> (http://www.repubblica.it/supplementi/af/.snapshot/nightly.1/2001/06/18/primopiano/010nuatta.html)

[snip]

Indeed, colleagues of mine pointed me to this article and it's an
 unbelievable piece of FUD. Let me translate the first lines for the
 non-Italian speaking...

'Even Linux ends up in court'

 "The open source community born around the "open" operating system
  rises against founder Linus Torvalds, accused of centralizing power
  and encumbering technology development" 

The supposed accusers:

 "a few developers accusing him of insufficient flexibility in his
  own choices"

but later these become

 "the entire Open Source community, for example, wonders whether
  Linux development may suffer from Torvalds' power, who decides
  all of the development strategies, what functions get integrated
  and what are left out. Decisions that may have positive or negative
  influence on firms of RedHat's importance and others involved in
  commercial distributions of Linux".

To top this off with complete crap, after mentioning Gracenote:

 "There may be a paradoxical situation: the [Microsoft] appeal judge
  may restore the Microsoft monolith that judge Jackson wanted to
  break in small pieces. And in the meantime who could end up under
  accusation for excessive power and monopoly "temptation" would be
  the arch-enemy Torvalds."


I have trouble in finding words to describe such blatant ignorance.

--alessandro

"The only second chance I know is the chance to make the same mistake twice"
   (from the movie 'State and Main')

When the FUD is all around (sniff).

[Luigi Genoni]

HI,

a couple of weeks ago, in Italy, on the review Affari e Finanza, that
comes with the newspaper "La Repubblica" (larepubblica@repubblica.it)
one of the biggest newspapaer in
Italy, there was an article with this title:
"Also Linux goes in Tribunal"
(http://www.repubblica.it/supplementi/af/.snapshot/nightly.1/2001/06/18/primopiano/010nuatta.html)
In this article it's said that open source and Free Software (those
terms are used as synonimous in the article, with a lot of confusion), are
a good things, (also if there are bad episodes like Gracenote changing its
licenze despite of the developers, from Open Source [GPL??] to a
commercial one), but actually kernel developers are tired of Linux and so,
while Microsoft could soon put an end to its trouble with american
joustice
"The big enemy Torvalds could be called to tribunal because of his big
power and monopolistic tendencies".

Please note, from the Title and the tone any reader would understand that
Some of big kernel hackers are going to sue Linus.
(Alan, some of my readers thinked to you).

In 3 days i recevived about 50 letters from Linux&C readers (the review i
write for), asking if it were true.

I wrote them, of course, not, and many of them wrote to "la Repubblica",
asking the reason of this FUD.
As an answert they received "read some kernel mail list archive".

simply they took some letter from some troll proposing a fork, and so...

The funny thing is that on the next page there was another article, with
the tittle "And als Us will be a little open".
The president of MicroSoft Italia was telling that M$ is really open
source because of (nahh, i cannot even write those lies).

After a couple of mail to "la Repubblica" i received as an answert that
they would have soon published a correction of the article.

I am reading now the "revision"
"It is true that kernel hackers dislike Linus attitute, but in tribunal
they took Gracenote"....
Again, I guess that Gracenote developers have troubles with Gracenote
commercial choice, but how is this related to Linus, or to any of the
people writing on this mail list?

If, let's say, some oracle developers working of the db version for winNT
go to the chart with Oracle, then a newspaper could ever write a title
like: "And Bill Gates goes to tribunal"?

Obviously, no.

here is a case when the fUD comes, not from M$, but from a newspaper
that should write facts.
I suppose they received some pression from M$, but if people read of a FUD
from a M$ employed, then they can guess what is going on, if it is a
newspaper usually telling facts in a correct way...

The situation is going to be sad

Luigi Genoni