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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Jan-Benedict Glaw <jbglaw@lug-owl.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 future
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:04:24 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0312020956120.1519@home.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20031202063912.GD16507@lug-owl.de>


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2003-12-02 02:23:55 +0000, snpe <snpe@snpe.co.yu>
> wrote in message <200312020223.55505.snpe@snpe.co.yu>:
> > Is there linux-abi for 2.6 kernel ?
>
> Nobody really cares about ABI (at least, not enough to keep one stable)
> while there's a good API. That requires sources, though, but that's a
> good thing...

People care _deeply_ about the user-visible Linux ABI - I personally think
backwards compatibility is absolutely _the_ most important issue for any
kernel, and breaking user-land ABI's is simply not done.

Sometimes we tweak user-visible stuff (for example, removing truly
obsolete system calls), but even then we're very very careful. Like
printing out warning messages for several _years_ before actually removing
the functionality.

The one exception tends to be "system management" ABI's, ie stuff that
normal programs don't use. So kernel updates do sometimes require new
utilities for doing things like firewall configuration, hardware setup
(ethernet tools, ifconfig etc), or - in the case of 2.6 - module loading
and unloading. Even that is frowned upon, and there has to be a good
reason for it.

At times, we've modified semantics of existing system behaviour subtly:
either to conform to standards, or because of implementation issues. It
doesn't happen often, and if it is found to break existing applications it
is not done at all (and the thing is fixed by adding a new system call
with the proper semantics, and leaving the old one broken).

You are, however, correct when it comes to internal kernel interfaces: we
care not at all about ABI's, and even API's are fluid and are freely
changed if there is a real technical reason for it. But that is only true
for the internal kernel stuff (where source is obviously a requirement
anyway).

		Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2003-12-02 18:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-12-01 14:25 Linux 2.4 future Marcelo Tosatti
2003-12-01 15:04 ` Ian Kent
2003-12-01 15:33   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-01 21:36     ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-01 23:54       ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-02  1:11         ` Ian Kent
2003-12-02 20:13           ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-02 20:10         ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-02 20:18           ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-02 20:46             ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-03  1:23               ` Ian Kent
2003-12-03 10:36                 ` Matthias Andree
2003-12-03 14:49                   ` Ian Kent
2003-12-03 15:00                     ` Matthias Andree
2003-12-04  6:24                       ` Ian Kent
2003-12-02 21:56             ` Bryan Whitehead
2003-12-02  8:17       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-02  1:09     ` Ian Kent
2003-12-02  2:23     ` snpe
2003-12-02  6:39       ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-02 18:04         ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2003-12-02 18:45           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-02 19:09             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-02 19:13               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-02 19:39               ` Gene Heskett
2003-12-02 20:13                 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-02 20:32                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-12-02 21:48                   ` Gene Heskett
2003-12-02 21:56                     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-03  2:36                       ` Harald Arnesen
2003-12-03  9:21                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-12-02 19:59           ` snpe
2003-12-02 22:30             ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-02 22:43               ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-03 14:08                 ` snpe
2003-12-03 13:26                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-02  8:18       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-01 15:26 ` Norberto Bensa
2003-12-01 23:30   ` 2.6 security patches merged? was: " Mike Fedyk
2003-12-02  0:06     ` Chris Wright
2003-12-02  0:58       ` Måns Rullgård
2003-12-02  1:56         ` Chris Wright
2003-12-02 11:55     ` Marcelo Tosatti
2003-12-02  9:00   ` Matthias Andree
2003-12-02 11:54   ` Ionut Georgescu
2003-12-02 12:03     ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-02 13:13       ` Ionut Georgescu
2003-12-02 13:38         ` Ed Sweetman
2003-12-02 14:12           ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-02 16:01           ` Ionut Georgescu
2003-12-02 16:08             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-02 18:20               ` John Bradford
2003-12-02 20:19               ` Ville Herva
2003-12-02 21:40                 ` Chris Wright
2003-12-02 20:09       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-12-02 20:24         ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-02 20:45           ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-12-02 21:03             ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
     [not found]       ` <Pine.LNX.4.58.0312021402360.17892@moje.vabo.cz>
     [not found]         ` <20031202131512.GU13388@conectiva.com.br>
     [not found]           ` <Pine.LNX.4.58.0312021433360.8417@moje.vabo.cz>
     [not found]             ` <20031202135423.GB13388@conectiva.com.br>
2003-12-02 20:21               ` Tomas Konir
2003-12-02 18:53                 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-02 19:06                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-02 23:13                 ` Jose Luis Domingo Lopez
2003-12-03 18:22                 ` bill davidsen
2003-12-04  1:24                   ` jw schultz
2003-12-04  1:47                     ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-04  3:45                       ` Tim Connors
2003-12-04  5:41                         ` Willy Tarreau
2003-12-05  0:14                       ` jw schultz
2003-12-01 15:56 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2003-12-01 21:02 ` David S. Miller
2003-12-03 21:26 ` Jan Rychter
2003-12-03 20:51   ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-03 21:14   ` Willy Tarreau
2003-12-05 15:33   ` John Jasen
2003-12-05 22:23     ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-06 15:49     ` Max Valdez

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