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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Jan-Benedict Glaw <jbglaw@lug-owl.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 future
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:09:28 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0312021101440.1519@home.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20031202184513.GU16507@lug-owl.de>



On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
>
> Whenever The ABI Question (TM) comes up, it seems to be about claiming a
> (binary compatible) interface - mostly for modules. But I think it's
> widely accepted that there isn't much work done to have these truly (sp?)
> binary compatible (eg. UP/SMP spinlocks et al.).

Absolutely. It's not going to happen. I am _totally_ uninterested in a
stable ABI for kernel modules, and in fact I'm actively against even
_trying_. I want people to be very much aware of the fact that kernel
internals do change, and that this will continue.

There are no good excuses for binary modules. Some of them may be
technically legal (by virtue of not being derived works) and allowed, but
even when they are legal they are a major pain in the ass, and always
horribly buggy.

I occasionally get a few complaints from vendors over my non-interest in
even _trying_ to help binary modules. Tough. It's a two-way street: if you
don't help me, I don't help you. Binary-only modules do not help Linux,
quite the reverse. As such, we should have no incentives to help make them
any more common than they already are. Adn we do have a lot of
dis-incentives.

			Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2003-12-02 19:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-12-01 14:25 Linux 2.4 future Marcelo Tosatti
2003-12-01 15:04 ` Ian Kent
2003-12-01 15:33   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-01 21:36     ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-01 23:54       ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-02  1:11         ` Ian Kent
2003-12-02 20:13           ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-02 20:10         ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-02 20:18           ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-12-02 20:46             ` Peter C. Norton
2003-12-03  1:23               ` Ian Kent
2003-12-03 10:36                 ` Matthias Andree
2003-12-03 14:49                   ` Ian Kent
2003-12-03 15:00                     ` Matthias Andree
2003-12-04  6:24                       ` Ian Kent
2003-12-02 21:56             ` Bryan Whitehead
2003-12-02  8:17       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-02  1:09     ` Ian Kent
2003-12-02  2:23     ` snpe
2003-12-02  6:39       ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-02 18:04         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-02 18:45           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-02 19:09             ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2003-12-02 19:13               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-12-02 19:39               ` Gene Heskett
2003-12-02 20:13                 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-02 20:32                 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-12-02 21:48                   ` Gene Heskett
2003-12-02 21:56                     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-03  2:36                       ` Harald Arnesen
2003-12-03  9:21                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-12-02 19:59           ` snpe
2003-12-02 22:30             ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-02 22:43               ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-03 14:08                 ` snpe
2003-12-03 13:26                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-02  8:18       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-12-01 15:26 ` Norberto Bensa
2003-12-01 23:30   ` 2.6 security patches merged? was: " Mike Fedyk
2003-12-02  0:06     ` Chris Wright
2003-12-02  0:58       ` Måns Rullgård
2003-12-02  1:56         ` Chris Wright
2003-12-02 11:55     ` Marcelo Tosatti
2003-12-02  9:00   ` Matthias Andree
2003-12-02 11:54   ` Ionut Georgescu
2003-12-02 12:03     ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-02 13:13       ` Ionut Georgescu
2003-12-02 13:38         ` Ed Sweetman
2003-12-02 14:12           ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-02 16:01           ` Ionut Georgescu
2003-12-02 16:08             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-02 18:20               ` John Bradford
2003-12-02 20:19               ` Ville Herva
2003-12-02 21:40                 ` Chris Wright
2003-12-02 20:09       ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-12-02 20:24         ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-12-02 20:45           ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-12-02 21:03             ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
     [not found]       ` <Pine.LNX.4.58.0312021402360.17892@moje.vabo.cz>
     [not found]         ` <20031202131512.GU13388@conectiva.com.br>
     [not found]           ` <Pine.LNX.4.58.0312021433360.8417@moje.vabo.cz>
     [not found]             ` <20031202135423.GB13388@conectiva.com.br>
2003-12-02 20:21               ` Tomas Konir
2003-12-02 18:53                 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-02 19:06                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-02 23:13                 ` Jose Luis Domingo Lopez
2003-12-03 18:22                 ` bill davidsen
2003-12-04  1:24                   ` jw schultz
2003-12-04  1:47                     ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-04  3:45                       ` Tim Connors
2003-12-04  5:41                         ` Willy Tarreau
2003-12-05  0:14                       ` jw schultz
2003-12-01 15:56 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2003-12-01 21:02 ` David S. Miller
2003-12-03 21:26 ` Jan Rychter
2003-12-03 20:51   ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-03 21:14   ` Willy Tarreau
2003-12-05 15:33   ` John Jasen
2003-12-05 22:23     ` Mike Fedyk
2003-12-06 15:49     ` Max Valdez

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