Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues"

From: "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>
To: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Mike Rapoport <rppt@kernel.org>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org>,
	workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	"regressions@lists.linux.dev" <regressions@lists.linux.dev>,
	ksummit@lists.linux.dev,
	Mario Limonciello <mario.limonciello@amd.com>
Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues"
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 12:16:28 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <fde043f3-da34-9fc6-379b-922f29284e66@gmx.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20221003102029.1fe4f31b@gandalf.local.home>

On 10/3/22 14:20, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2022 09:40:43 +0000
> "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> For instance, I've CC'ed Linus Torvalds _privately_ from Bugzilla twice
>> and he _chimed_ in and _helped_ resolve the bugs.
>
> You didn't Cc Linus _privately_, because you Cc'd him from Bugzilla. I'm
> guessing that means it's a public conversation. Which is similar to Cc'ing
> a maintainer and a public mailing list.

I _did_ CC him privately by adding his _personal_ e-mail. I'm astonished
not only you don't believe me you turn my words inside out.

>
>> My messages to LKML
>> were _ignored_ by +1000 people subscribed to it.
>
> LKML gets 800 emails a day. Nobody reads it (besides Jon Corbet and Andrew
> Morton). But if you send email to a maintainer privately without Cc'ing any
> public mailing list (or Bugzilla), then it will likely be ignored.

Wow, so pretty much the vast majority of people here advocate for
deprecating Bugzilla and asking non-IT people to use something which is
essentially a ... SPAM list?

Woah.

I've given almost a dozen reasons why mailing lists simply don't work as
a bug tracker in absolute most cases.

BTW, this discussion is a perfect f-ing example of that. What could have
been easily read in a tracker needs to be repeated over and over and
over again because you didn't bother to read previous messages 'cause
you were busy, not paying attention, simply forgot and you don't want to
scroll days of messages in your inbox.

God, this is so ugly it's cringe worthy.

Most people here who advocate for killing off Bugzilla:

1) Have _never_ used it
2) Have troubles even following _this_ conversation

That' ridiculous.

>
> What we are saying is, you need to do both. Cc the maintainer _and_ a
> public mailing list. That way the maintainer knows others can see it, and
> could point someone else to look at it if they do not have the time, or
> they know someone who can better help.
>
> -- Steve