From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>,
Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:07:45 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090414150745.GC26621@shareable.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m18wm38ws1.fsf@fess.ebiederm.org>
Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> > I don't have anything at hand but multithread/process server accepting
> > on the same socket comes to mind. I don't think it would be a very
> > rare thing. If you confine the scope to character devices or sysfs,
> > it could be quite rare tho.
>
> Yes. I think I can safely exclude sockets, and not bother with
> reference counting them.
Good idea. As well as many processes calling accept(), it's not
unusual to have two threads or processes for reading and writing
concurrently to TCP sockets, and to have a single UDP socket shared
among threads/processes for sendto.
> The only strong evidence I have that multi-threading on a single file
> descriptor is likely to be common is that we have pread and pwrite
> syscalls. At the same time the number of races we have in struct file
> if it is accessed by multiple threads at the same time, suggests
> that at least for cases where you have an offset it doesn't happen often.
Notice the preadv and pwritev syscalls added recently? They were
added because QEMU and KVM need them for performance. Those programs
have multiple threads doing I/O to the same file concurrently. It's
like a poor man's AIO, except it's more reliable than real Linux AIO :-)
Databases probably should use concurrent p{read,write}{,v} if they're
not using direct I/O and AIO. I'm not sure if the well-known
databases do. In the past there have been some poor quality
"emulations" of those syscalls prone to races, on Linux and BSD I believe.
What are the races you've noticed?
-- Jamie
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>,
Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:07:45 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090414150745.GC26621@shareable.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m18wm38ws1.fsf@fess.ebiederm.org>
Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> > I don't have anything at hand but multithread/process server accepting
> > on the same socket comes to mind. I don't think it would be a very
> > rare thing. If you confine the scope to character devices or sysfs,
> > it could be quite rare tho.
>
> Yes. I think I can safely exclude sockets, and not bother with
> reference counting them.
Good idea. As well as many processes calling accept(), it's not
unusual to have two threads or processes for reading and writing
concurrently to TCP sockets, and to have a single UDP socket shared
among threads/processes for sendto.
> The only strong evidence I have that multi-threading on a single file
> descriptor is likely to be common is that we have pread and pwrite
> syscalls. At the same time the number of races we have in struct file
> if it is accessed by multiple threads at the same time, suggests
> that at least for cases where you have an offset it doesn't happen often.
Notice the preadv and pwritev syscalls added recently? They were
added because QEMU and KVM need them for performance. Those programs
have multiple threads doing I/O to the same file concurrently. It's
like a poor man's AIO, except it's more reliable than real Linux AIO :-)
Databases probably should use concurrent p{read,write}{,v} if they're
not using direct I/O and AIO. I'm not sure if the well-known
databases do. In the past there have been some poor quality
"emulations" of those syscalls prone to races, on Linux and BSD I believe.
What are the races you've noticed?
-- Jamie
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-04-14 15:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 207+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-04-11 12:01 [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:01 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:03 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/9] mm: Introduce remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:03 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:05 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/9] mm: Implement generic support for revoking a mapping Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:05 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:05 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:06 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/9] sysfs: Use remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:07 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/9] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:07 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:07 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:08 ` [RFC][PATCH 5/9] vfs: Introduce basic infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:08 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:08 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 22:12 ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-04-14 22:12 ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-04-15 2:55 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-15 2:55 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-15 2:55 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:10 ` [RFC][PATCH 6/9] vfs: Utilize fops_read_lock where appropriate Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:10 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:10 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:11 ` [RFC][PATCH 7/9] vfs: Optimize fops_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:11 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:11 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:13 ` [RFC][PATCH 8/9] vfs: Implement generic revoked file operations Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:13 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:13 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 18:56 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 18:56 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 20:04 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:04 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:31 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 20:31 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 21:53 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 21:53 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 21:02 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 21:02 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 23:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 23:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:14 ` [RFC][PATCH 9/9] proc: Use the generic vfs revoke facility that now exists Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:14 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 15:58 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Al Viro
2009-04-11 15:58 ` Al Viro
2009-04-11 16:49 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 16:49 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 16:56 ` Al Viro
2009-04-11 16:56 ` Al Viro
2009-04-11 23:57 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 23:57 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:21 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:21 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 3:16 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 3:16 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 7:39 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 7:39 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 7:45 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 7:45 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 8:27 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 8:27 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 8:49 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 8:49 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 15:07 ` Jamie Lokier [this message]
2009-04-14 15:07 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-14 19:09 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 19:09 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:45 ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:45 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 01/23] mm: Introduce revoke_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 22:25 ` Andrew Morton
2009-06-01 22:25 ` Andrew Morton
2009-06-02 0:12 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 0:12 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 02/23] vfs: Implement unpoll_file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-06 8:08 ` Al Viro
2009-06-06 8:08 ` Al Viro
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 03/23] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 7:06 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 7:06 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05 19:33 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-05 19:33 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:38 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 10:38 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 18:38 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 18:38 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-10 6:05 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-10 6:05 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 04/23] vfs: Introduce infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 5:16 ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02 5:16 ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02 6:51 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 6:51 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 7:08 ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02 7:08 ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02 7:08 ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02 7:14 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 7:14 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 17:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 17:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 20:52 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 20:52 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 6:37 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-03 6:37 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 22:56 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 22:56 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 6:38 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-03 6:38 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05 9:03 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-05 9:03 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-05 19:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-05 19:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 05/23] vfs: Teach lseek to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 06/23] vfs: Teach read/write to use file_hotplug_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 07/23] vfs: Teach sendfile,splice,tee,and vmsplice to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:39 ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-03 23:39 ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-05 19:37 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-05 19:37 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 08/23] vfs: Teach readdir " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 09/23] vfs: Teach poll and select " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 10/23] vfs: Teach do_path_lookup " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 11/23] mm: Teach mmap " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 12/23] vfs: Teach fcntl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 13/23] vfs: Teach ioctl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 14/23] vfs: Teach flock " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 15/23] vfs: Teach fallocate, and filp_close " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 16/23] vfs: Teach fstatfs, fstatfs64, ftruncate, fchdir, fchmod, fchown " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 17/23] proc: Teach /proc/<pid>/fd " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 18/23] vfs: Teach epoll " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 16:51 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 16:51 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 21:23 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 21:23 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 21:52 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 21:52 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 22:51 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 22:51 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 14:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-03 14:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-03 20:53 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 20:53 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-04 0:50 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-04 0:50 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-04 1:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-04 1:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 19/23] eventpoll: Fix comment Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 20/23] vfs: Teach aio to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 21/23] vfs: Teach fsync " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 22/23] vfs: Teach fadvice to file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` [PATCH 23/23] vfs: Teach readahead to use the file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:25 ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-03 23:25 ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-06 8:03 ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Al Viro
2009-06-06 8:03 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 9:41 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 9:41 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 10:24 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-08 10:24 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-08 16:29 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 16:29 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 16:44 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 16:44 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 17:50 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 17:50 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 18:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-08 18:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-08 18:50 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 18:50 ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 19:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-08 19:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-09 6:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 6:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:52 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 10:52 ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 5:50 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-09 5:50 ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-09 6:31 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 6:31 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 6:22 ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 6:22 ` Eric W. Biederman
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