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From: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: "Huangpeng (Peter)" <peter.huangpeng@huawei.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@parallels.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>,
	Andres Lagar-Cavilla <andreslc@google.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	"Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@shutemov.name>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com,
	Sanidhya Kashyap <sanidhya.gatech@gmail.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Peter Feiner <pfeiner@google.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/7] userfaultfd: require UFFDIO_API before other ioctls
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 23:43:38 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150615214338.GH18909@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFzdZJw7Ot7=PYyyskNhkv=H+NPzoF6rKtb6oMyzkuQ-=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 08:11:50AM -1000, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Jun 15, 2015 7:22 AM, "Andrea Arcangeli" <aarcange@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > +       if (cmd != UFFDIO_API) {
> > +               if (ctx->state == UFFD_STATE_WAIT_API)
> > +                       return -EINVAL;
> > +               BUG_ON(ctx->state != UFFD_STATE_RUNNING);
> > +       }
> 
> NAK.
> 
> Once again: we don't add BUG_ON() as some kind of assert. If your
> non-critical code has s bug in it, you do WARN_ONCE() and you return. You
> don't kill the machine just because of some "this can't happen" situation.
> 
> It turns out "this can't happen" happens way too often, just because code
> changes, or programmers didn't think all the cases through. And killing the
> machine is just NOT ACCEPTABLE.
> 
> People need to stop adding machine-killing checks to code that just doesn't
> merit killing the machine.
> 
> And if you are so damn sure that it really cannot happen ever, then you
> damn well had better remove the test too!
> 
> BUG_ON is not a debugging tool, or a "I think this would be bad" helper.

Several times I got very hardly reproducible bugs noticed purely
because of BUG_ON (not VM_BUG_ON) inserted out of pure paranoia, so I
know as a matter of fact that they're worth the little cost. It's hard
to tell if things didn't get worse, if the workload continued, or even
if I ended up getting a bugreport in the first place with only a
WARN_ON variant, precisely because a WARN_ON isn't necessarily a bug.

Example: when a WARN_ON in the network code showup (and they do once
in a while as there are so many), nobody panics because we assume it
may not actually be a bug so we can cross finger it goes away at the
next git fetch... not even sure if they all get reported in the first
place.

BUG_ONs are terribly annoying when they trigger, and even worse if
they're false positives, but they're worth the pain in my view.

Of course what's unacceptable is that BUG_ON can be triggered at will
by userland, that would be a security issue. Just in case I verified
to run two UFFDIO_API in a row and a UFFDIO_REGISTER without an
UFFDIO_API before it, and no BUG_ON triggers with this code inserted.

Said that it's your choice, so I'm not going to argue further about
this and I'm sure fine with WARN_ONCE too, there were a few more to
convert in the state machine invariant checks. While at it I can also
use VM_WARN_ONCE to cover my performance concern.

Thanks,
Andrea

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: "Huangpeng (Peter)" <peter.huangpeng@huawei.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@parallels.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>,
	Andres Lagar-Cavilla <andreslc@google.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	"Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@shutemov.name>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com,
	Sanidhya Kashyap <sanidhya.gatech@gmail.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Peter Feiner <pfeiner@google.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/7] userfaultfd: require UFFDIO_API before other ioctls
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 23:43:38 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150615214338.GH18909@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFzdZJw7Ot7=PYyyskNhkv=H+NPzoF6rKtb6oMyzkuQ-=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 08:11:50AM -1000, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Jun 15, 2015 7:22 AM, "Andrea Arcangeli" <aarcange@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > +       if (cmd != UFFDIO_API) {
> > +               if (ctx->state == UFFD_STATE_WAIT_API)
> > +                       return -EINVAL;
> > +               BUG_ON(ctx->state != UFFD_STATE_RUNNING);
> > +       }
> 
> NAK.
> 
> Once again: we don't add BUG_ON() as some kind of assert. If your
> non-critical code has s bug in it, you do WARN_ONCE() and you return. You
> don't kill the machine just because of some "this can't happen" situation.
> 
> It turns out "this can't happen" happens way too often, just because code
> changes, or programmers didn't think all the cases through. And killing the
> machine is just NOT ACCEPTABLE.
> 
> People need to stop adding machine-killing checks to code that just doesn't
> merit killing the machine.
> 
> And if you are so damn sure that it really cannot happen ever, then you
> damn well had better remove the test too!
> 
> BUG_ON is not a debugging tool, or a "I think this would be bad" helper.

Several times I got very hardly reproducible bugs noticed purely
because of BUG_ON (not VM_BUG_ON) inserted out of pure paranoia, so I
know as a matter of fact that they're worth the little cost. It's hard
to tell if things didn't get worse, if the workload continued, or even
if I ended up getting a bugreport in the first place with only a
WARN_ON variant, precisely because a WARN_ON isn't necessarily a bug.

Example: when a WARN_ON in the network code showup (and they do once
in a while as there are so many), nobody panics because we assume it
may not actually be a bug so we can cross finger it goes away at the
next git fetch... not even sure if they all get reported in the first
place.

BUG_ONs are terribly annoying when they trigger, and even worse if
they're false positives, but they're worth the pain in my view.

Of course what's unacceptable is that BUG_ON can be triggered at will
by userland, that would be a security issue. Just in case I verified
to run two UFFDIO_API in a row and a UFFDIO_REGISTER without an
UFFDIO_API before it, and no BUG_ON triggers with this code inserted.

Said that it's your choice, so I'm not going to argue further about
this and I'm sure fine with WARN_ONCE too, there were a few more to
convert in the state machine invariant checks. While at it I can also
use VM_WARN_ONCE to cover my performance concern.

Thanks,
Andrea

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@parallels.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@shutemov.name>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	"Huangpeng (Peter)" <peter.huangpeng@huawei.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	Sanidhya Kashyap <sanidhya.gatech@gmail.com>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, Andres Lagar-Cavilla <andreslc@google.com>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	"Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>,
	Peter Feiner <pfeiner@google.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH 1/7] userfaultfd: require UFFDIO_API before other ioctls
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 23:43:38 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150615214338.GH18909@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFzdZJw7Ot7=PYyyskNhkv=H+NPzoF6rKtb6oMyzkuQ-=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 08:11:50AM -1000, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Jun 15, 2015 7:22 AM, "Andrea Arcangeli" <aarcange@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > +       if (cmd != UFFDIO_API) {
> > +               if (ctx->state == UFFD_STATE_WAIT_API)
> > +                       return -EINVAL;
> > +               BUG_ON(ctx->state != UFFD_STATE_RUNNING);
> > +       }
> 
> NAK.
> 
> Once again: we don't add BUG_ON() as some kind of assert. If your
> non-critical code has s bug in it, you do WARN_ONCE() and you return. You
> don't kill the machine just because of some "this can't happen" situation.
> 
> It turns out "this can't happen" happens way too often, just because code
> changes, or programmers didn't think all the cases through. And killing the
> machine is just NOT ACCEPTABLE.
> 
> People need to stop adding machine-killing checks to code that just doesn't
> merit killing the machine.
> 
> And if you are so damn sure that it really cannot happen ever, then you
> damn well had better remove the test too!
> 
> BUG_ON is not a debugging tool, or a "I think this would be bad" helper.

Several times I got very hardly reproducible bugs noticed purely
because of BUG_ON (not VM_BUG_ON) inserted out of pure paranoia, so I
know as a matter of fact that they're worth the little cost. It's hard
to tell if things didn't get worse, if the workload continued, or even
if I ended up getting a bugreport in the first place with only a
WARN_ON variant, precisely because a WARN_ON isn't necessarily a bug.

Example: when a WARN_ON in the network code showup (and they do once
in a while as there are so many), nobody panics because we assume it
may not actually be a bug so we can cross finger it goes away at the
next git fetch... not even sure if they all get reported in the first
place.

BUG_ONs are terribly annoying when they trigger, and even worse if
they're false positives, but they're worth the pain in my view.

Of course what's unacceptable is that BUG_ON can be triggered at will
by userland, that would be a security issue. Just in case I verified
to run two UFFDIO_API in a row and a UFFDIO_REGISTER without an
UFFDIO_API before it, and no BUG_ON triggers with this code inserted.

Said that it's your choice, so I'm not going to argue further about
this and I'm sure fine with WARN_ONCE too, there were a few more to
convert in the state machine invariant checks. While at it I can also
use VM_WARN_ONCE to cover my performance concern.

Thanks,
Andrea

  reply	other threads:[~2015-06-15 21:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-06-15 17:22 [PATCH 0/7] userfault21 update Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 1/7] userfaultfd: require UFFDIO_API before other ioctls Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 18:11   ` Linus Torvalds
2015-06-15 18:11     ` [Qemu-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2015-06-15 21:43     ` Andrea Arcangeli [this message]
2015-06-15 21:43       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 21:43       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 21:55       ` Linus Torvalds
2015-06-15 21:55         ` [Qemu-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 2/7] userfaultfd: propagate the full address in THP faults Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 3/7] userfaultfd: allow signals to interrupt a userfault Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 4/7] userfaultfd: avoid missing wakeups during refile in userfaultfd_read Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 5/7] userfaultfd: switch to exclusive wakeup for blocking reads Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 18:19   ` Linus Torvalds
2015-06-15 18:19     ` [Qemu-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2015-06-15 22:19     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 22:19       ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 22:19       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-16  6:41       ` Linus Torvalds
2015-06-16  6:41         ` [Qemu-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2015-06-16  6:41         ` Linus Torvalds
2015-06-16 12:17         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-16 12:17           ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-16 12:17           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 6/7] userfaultfd: Revert "userfaultfd: waitqueue: add nr wake parameter to __wake_up_locked_key" Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22 ` [PATCH 7/7] userfaultfd: selftest Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-06-15 17:22   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-10-12 15:04 ` [PATCH 0/7] userfault21 update Patrick Donnelly
2015-10-12 15:04   ` [Qemu-devel] " Patrick Donnelly
2015-10-12 15:04   ` Patrick Donnelly
2015-10-19 21:42   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-10-19 21:42     ` [Qemu-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2015-10-19 21:42     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-10-19 21:42     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2015-10-20 13:44     ` Patrick Donnelly
2015-10-20 13:44       ` [Qemu-devel] " Patrick Donnelly
2015-10-20 13:44       ` Patrick Donnelly

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