From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>,
Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andrew Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux List Kernel Mailing <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@yandex-team.ru>,
Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Michael Kerrisk-manpages <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Jonathan Kowalski <bl0pbl33p@gmail.com>,
"Dmitry V. Levin" <ldv@altlinux.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
Nagarathnam Muthusamy <nagarathnam.muthusamy@oracle.com>,
Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@cyphar.com>,
Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open()
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:16:47 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wh0jgRkZiNdFD96Zpjx+_G+NVSHieAt+QgWCQBJ2A-5Aw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190331220259.qntxynluk765hpnt@brauner.io>
On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 3:03 PM Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input. The problem Jann and I saw with this is that it
> would be awkward to have the kernel open a file in some procfs instance,
> since then userspace would have to specify which procfs instance the fd
> should come from.
I would actually suggest we just make the rules be that the
pidfd_open() always return the internal /proc entry regardless of any
mount-point (or any "hidepid") but also suggest that exactly *because*
it gives you visibility into the target pid, you'd basically require
the strictest kind of control of the process you're trying to get the
pidfd of.
Ie likely something along the lines of
ptrace_may_access(task, PTRACE_MODE_ATTACH_REALCREDS)
kind of requirements.
But honestly, just how much do you need pidfd_open()? If this is
purely because somebody goes "oh, ASCII is expensive", then just stop
doing it entirely. It's not. It's fine. Going throuigh a filesystem is
a *good* thing, exactly because it allows MIS to control it.
So it's entirely possible that the right answer is: "just open
/proc/<pid>/", and accept the fact that everybody has it anyway, and
people who don't have it don't get the new functionality (with the
possible exception of clone(CLONE_PIDFD), which only gives you access
to a child you created yourself.
Linus
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>,
Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andrew Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux List Kernel Mailing <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@yandex-team.ru>,
Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Michael Kerrisk-manpages <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Jonathan Kowalski <bl0pbl33p@gmail.com>,
"Dmitry V. Levin" <ldv@altlinux.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Oleg Nesterov <oleg@red>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open()
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:16:47 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wh0jgRkZiNdFD96Zpjx+_G+NVSHieAt+QgWCQBJ2A-5Aw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190331220259.qntxynluk765hpnt@brauner.io>
On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 3:03 PM Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input. The problem Jann and I saw with this is that it
> would be awkward to have the kernel open a file in some procfs instance,
> since then userspace would have to specify which procfs instance the fd
> should come from.
I would actually suggest we just make the rules be that the
pidfd_open() always return the internal /proc entry regardless of any
mount-point (or any "hidepid") but also suggest that exactly *because*
it gives you visibility into the target pid, you'd basically require
the strictest kind of control of the process you're trying to get the
pidfd of.
Ie likely something along the lines of
ptrace_may_access(task, PTRACE_MODE_ATTACH_REALCREDS)
kind of requirements.
But honestly, just how much do you need pidfd_open()? If this is
purely because somebody goes "oh, ASCII is expensive", then just stop
doing it entirely. It's not. It's fine. Going throuigh a filesystem is
a *good* thing, exactly because it allows MIS to control it.
So it's entirely possible that the right answer is: "just open
/proc/<pid>/", and accept the fact that everybody has it anyway, and
people who don't have it don't get the new functionality (with the
possible exception of clone(CLONE_PIDFD), which only gives you access
to a child you created yourself.
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-03-31 22:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 158+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-03-29 15:54 [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open() Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 1/5] Make anon_inodes unconditional Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 2/5] pid: add pidfd_open() Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 23:45 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-29 23:45 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-29 23:55 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 23:55 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 11:53 ` Jürg Billeter
2019-03-30 14:37 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 14:51 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 14:51 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 3/5] signal: support pidfd_open() with pidfd_send_signal() Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 4/5] signal: PIDFD_SIGNAL_TID threads via pidfds Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 1:06 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-30 1:06 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-30 1:22 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 1:22 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 1:34 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 1:34 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 1:42 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 1:42 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 5/5] tests: add pidfd_open() tests Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:09 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open() Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 1:07 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31 1:07 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31 2:34 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 2:34 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 4:08 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31 4:08 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31 4:46 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 4:46 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 14:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 14:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 15:05 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 15:05 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 15:21 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-31 15:21 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-31 15:33 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-31 15:33 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 16:19 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:19 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:38 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:38 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:12 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:12 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:37 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:37 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:50 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 17:50 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 17:52 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:52 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:59 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 17:59 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 18:02 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 18:02 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 18:00 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-30 18:00 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 20:09 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-31 20:09 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-31 21:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 21:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 21:10 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 21:10 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 21:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 21:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 22:03 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 22:03 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 22:16 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2019-03-31 22:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 22:33 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 22:33 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 0:52 ` Jann Horn
2019-04-01 0:52 ` Jann Horn
2019-04-01 8:47 ` Yann Droneaud
2019-04-01 8:47 ` Yann Droneaud
2019-04-01 10:03 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 10:03 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-31 23:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 23:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 0:09 ` Al Viro
2019-04-01 0:09 ` Al Viro
2019-04-01 0:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 0:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 0:21 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 0:21 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 6:37 ` Al Viro
2019-04-01 6:37 ` Al Viro
2019-04-01 6:41 ` Al Viro
2019-04-01 6:41 ` Al Viro
2019-03-31 22:03 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-31 22:03 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 2:13 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 2:13 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 11:40 ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-04-01 11:40 ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-04-01 15:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 15:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 15:47 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 15:47 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 15:55 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 15:55 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 19:42 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 19:42 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 21:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 21:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 21:58 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 21:58 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 22:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 22:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 22:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 22:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:07 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:07 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:27 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:27 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:21 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:21 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:45 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:45 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 17:00 ` David Laight
2019-04-01 17:00 ` David Laight
2019-04-01 17:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 17:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-02 11:03 ` Florian Weimer
2019-04-02 11:03 ` Florian Weimer
2019-04-01 16:10 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 16:10 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 12:04 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 12:04 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 13:43 ` Jann Horn
2019-04-01 13:43 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 21:19 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 21:19 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:37 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:37 ` Christian Brauner
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