RE: [RFC PATCH 00/10] Add Fujitsu A64FX soc entry/hardware barrier driver

From: "misono.tomohiro@fujitsu.com" <misono.tomohiro@fujitsu.com>
To: 'Arnd Bergmann' <arnd@kernel.org>
Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	SoC Team <soc@kernel.org>, Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>
Subject: RE: [RFC PATCH 00/10] Add Fujitsu A64FX soc entry/hardware barrier driver
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2021 07:03:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <OSBPR01MB4582AE99E2BFFB23749C2394E5979@OSBPR01MB4582.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAK8P3a3CwCSXyXuj9NGcyowTUYdUgAJdH8ue=R_aXYX+SO6Uew@mail.gmail.com>

> > > I'm also running out of ideas here. I don't think a sysfs interface would
> > > be any different to your earlier ioctl interface or the the /dev/msr approach,
> > > they all share the same problem that they expose low-level access to
> > > platform specific registers in a way that is neither portable nor safe to
> > > use for general-purpose applications outside the very narrow scope
> > > of running highly optimized HPC applications.
> >
> > Ok, but ARM architecture permits implementation defined registers at the
> > first place. So can we provide some method/interface to access them as
> > CPU feature if these registers do not at least affect kernel operations (like
> > this barrier) and only root can access them? Library could offer portable way
> > for user applications (under root permission) to access them.
> 
> The kernel is meant to provide an abstraction for any differences between the
> CPUs, including implementation defined registers. While any such abstraction
> will be leaky, just passing through the raw registers is generally not a helpful
> abstraction at all, as seen from the x86 MSR discussion you pointed to.
> 
> One problem with having a root-only register level interface is that this
> can break the boundary between kernel mode and root user space, and
> this is something that a lot of people would like to strengthen for security
> reasons (e.g. a root user should not be able to break secure boot).
> 
> Another problem is that exposing the raw registers from kernel space
> creates an ABI, and if it turns out to be a bad idea later on, this is hard to
> take back without breaking existing applications. Not breaking things that
> used to work is the primary rule for the Linux kernel.

Ok, thanks for the thorough explanations. It helps my understandings.

> In order to merge anything into the mainline kernel, I think the requirement
> would be that it does provide a sensible abstraction inside of the kernel
> that can directly be used from applications without having to go through
> another library that abstracts it, and that has a good chance of being
> supportable forever.

As you mentioned an idea of process-based approach earlier, I will
reconsider the possibility of general abstraction interface in that way.

Regards,
Tomohiro