x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Lars Kurth]

Dear community members, 

please send me agenda items for next week’s community call by next Monday. If you are not on the TO list, and want to be, please let me know. 
Last month's minutes were at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VUPdWwd1raDOPhjReVVkmb6YoQB3X5oU12E4ExjO1n0/edit#heading=h.mz1wjb9vekjn

One admin item we do need to discuss is
1) Non-DST meeting times: Note that from November Daylight Savings does not apply in the northern hemisphere.
Option 1: If we keep the meeting at 14:00 - 15:00 UTC, meetings in the US and Europe will be one hour earlier, while the China will be at the same time
Option 2: If we move the meeting to 15:00 - 14:00 UTC during winter time, meetings in the US and Europe will stay the same, while the China will be at 23:00-24:00

2) Open / Recently closed ACTION items
* [Open] Lars to bring up x86 bottleneck at next AB call – due to the Aug holidays we didn’t have any of the relevant vendors on the call. On the Sept call, we had a similar issue for different reasons. I have done a little bit of Analysis, which I am willing to share. 
* [Open] Christopher will follow up on IRC/xen-devel@ re memory scrubbing
* [Open] Lars would be happy to start a discussion on IRC, then xen-devel and start tidying the JIRA instance up - discussed on IRC, but did not have time to play with Jira
* [Open] Juergen agreed to add Argo to the work tracking list for the 4.12 release, communicated in the “Xen 4.12 Development Update” mail series. Latest update, see https://lists.xenproject.org/archives/html/xen-devel/2018-09/threads.html#01069 

* [Done] Lars to give Christopher write access to JIRA 
* [Done] Christopher to create a JIRA ticket for the Argo work, see https://xenproject.atlassian.net/browse/XEN-118

Meeting time
14:00 - 15:00 UTC
10:00 - 11:00 EDT (New York)
15:00 - 16:00 BST (London)
16:00 - 17:00 CEST (Berlin)
22:00 - 23:00 CST (Beijing)
Further International meeting times: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2018&month=10&day=10&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=224&p2=24&p3=179&p4=136&p5=37&p6=33 

Best Regards
Lars

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Paul Durrant]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Kurth
> Sent: 04 October 2018 11:09
> To: xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org>; committers@xenproject.org;
> Tamas K Lengyel <tamas.k.lengyel@gmail.com>; intel-xen@intel.com;
> daniel.kiper@oracle.com; Roger Pau Monne <roger.pau@citrix.com>;
> Christopher Clark <christopher.w.clark@gmail.com>; Rich Persaud
> <persaur@gmail.com>; Brian Woods <brian.woods@amd.com>; Juergen Gross
> <jgross@suse.com>; Paul Durrant <Paul.Durrant@citrix.com>; Ji, John
> <john.ji@intel.com>; Natarajan, Janakarajan <jnataraj@amd.com>
> Cc: edgar.iglesias@xilinx.com; davorin.mista@aggios.com;
> robin.randhawa@arm.com; Artem Mygaiev <Artem_Mygaiev@epam.com>; Matt
> Spencer <Matt.Spencer@arm.com>; anastassios.nanos@onapp.com; Julien Grall
> <julien.grall@arm.com>; Stewart Hildebrand
> <Stewart.Hildebrand@dornerworks.com>; vfachin@de.adit-jv.com; Volodymyr
> Babchuk <volodymyr_babchuk@epam.com>; mirela.simonovic@aggios.com; Jarvis
> Roach <Jarvis.Roach@dornerworks.com>; Stefano Stabellini
> <sstabellini@kernel.org>; Julien Grall <julien.grall@arm.com>
> Subject: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for
> agenda items
> 
> Dear community members,
> 
> please send me agenda items for next week’s community call by next Monday.

I think we should discuss maintainer responsiveness, specifically w.r.t. AMD IOMMU.

  Paul
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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Lars Kurth]

Hi all,

## Agenda 
  The agenda can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZfZ1SJRauLrISiTLXzM0DPxQL8beNkAQS5MwLLNtRKc/edit?usp=sharing
  The document is R/W already

  But in a nutshell 
  * Admin Items: When to have winter meetings (DST effect)
  * Open / Closed Actions from Previous calls
  * New Series / Series that need attention - note that I don't have any right now. Feel free to add items to this section
  * Maintainer Responsiveness (Paul Durrant) 
  * AOB (none at this stage)
    
## Meeting time
  14:00 - 15:00 UTC
  10:00 - 11:00 EDT (New York)
  15:00 - 16:00 BST (London)
  16:00 - 17:00 CEST (Berlin)
  22:00 - 23:00 CST (Beijing)

Further International meeting times: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2018&month=10&day=10&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=224&p2=24&p3=179&p4=136&p5=37&p6=33 
    
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Best Regards
Lars
    
    

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Tamas K Lengyel]

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:41 AM Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> ## Agenda
>   The agenda can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZfZ1SJRauLrISiTLXzM0DPxQL8beNkAQS5MwLLNtRKc/edit?usp=sharing
>   The document is R/W already

I've added a last minute item I would like to discuss if possible
regarding the state of nested virtualization.

Thanks,
Tamas

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Andrew Cooper]

On 09/10/18 15:53, Tamas K Lengyel wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:41 AM Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> ## Agenda
>>   The agenda can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZfZ1SJRauLrISiTLXzM0DPxQL8beNkAQS5MwLLNtRKc/edit?usp=sharing
>>   The document is R/W already
> I've added a last minute item I would like to discuss if possible
> regarding the state of nested virtualization.

Certainly can.  The tl;dr is that Nested Virt is my highest priority
work, short of security issues.

Curiously, it hasn't made much progress in the past year...

~Andrew

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Lars Kurth]

Tamas: I saw it. Thank you

On 09/10/2018, 16:13, "Andrew Cooper" <Andrew.Cooper3@citrix.com> wrote:

    On 09/10/18 15:53, Tamas K Lengyel wrote:
    > On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:41 AM Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> ## Agenda
    >>   The agenda can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZfZ1SJRauLrISiTLXzM0DPxQL8beNkAQS5MwLLNtRKc/edit?usp=sharing
    >>   The document is R/W already
    > I've added a last minute item I would like to discuss if possible
    > regarding the state of nested virtualization.
    
    Certainly can.  The tl;dr is that Nested Virt is my highest priority
    work, short of security issues.
    
    Curiously, it hasn't made much progress in the past year...
    
    ~Andrew
    

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Lars Kurth]

Hi all,
I added a NIST Security Paper to the agenda which is currently under review and is full of inaccuracies and could potentially become very problematic to the project and vendors using Xen if officially published by NIST without being corrected (it needs responses by the end of week). I will be struggling to do this alone and would like to enlist help, in particular from people with a security background. That would also be significantly more powerful than me providing the feedback.
Regards
Kars

On 09/10/2018, 16:13, "Andrew Cooper" <Andrew.Cooper3@citrix.com> wrote:

    On 09/10/18 15:53, Tamas K Lengyel wrote:
    > On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:41 AM Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> ## Agenda
    >>   The agenda can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZfZ1SJRauLrISiTLXzM0DPxQL8beNkAQS5MwLLNtRKc/edit?usp=sharing
    >>   The document is R/W already
    > I've added a last minute item I would like to discuss if possible
    > regarding the state of nested virtualization.
    
    Certainly can.  The tl;dr is that Nested Virt is my highest priority
    work, short of security issues.
    
    Curiously, it hasn't made much progress in the past year...
    
    ~Andrew
    

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Rich Persaud]

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Lars,

This NIST document ("A Methodology for Determining Forensic Data Requirements for Detecting Hypervisor Attacks" [1]) appears to be focused on the application of LibVMI in some contexts.  It is a NIST Interagency or Internal Report (NISTIR) document with a narrower scope than other NIST publications, e.g. Special Publications (SP).  NISTIR documents are:

https://www.nist.gov/nist-research-library/nist-series-publications
"... Interim or final reports on work performed by NIST for outside sponsors (both government and non-government).  May also report results of NIST projects of transitory or limited interest, including those that will be published subsequently in more comprehensive form."

If the Xen community wishes to provide feedback on this NISTIR draft, I suggest compiling a single document, including:

 - any inaccuracies + supporting references
 - vulnerability scope boundaries, including Xen hypervisor, Linux kernel affecting KVM, KVM module for Linux kernel, QEMU and hypervisor toolstack(s)
 - additional sample attack(s) and evidence coverage for forensic analysis
 - additional references on hypervisor security / vulnerability analysis
 - missing perspectives (e.g. impact of features selected via KCONFIG, disaggregation)
 - other feedback

If a single list can be compiled, each item can be numbered and Xen community viewpoints can be aggregated for possible consensus in unified feedback, or individuals could submit their feedback separately.

Rich

[1] https://csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Publications/nistir/8221/draft/documents/nistir-8221-draft.pdf

> On Oct 9, 2018, at 14:20, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I added a NIST Security Paper to the agenda which is currently under review and is full of inaccuracies and could potentially become very problematic to the project and vendors using Xen if officially published by NIST without being corrected (it needs responses by the end of week). I will be struggling to do this alone and would like to enlist help, in particular from people with a security background. That would also be significantly more powerful than me providing the feedback.
> Regards
> Kars
> 

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Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

[Lars Kurth]

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> If the Xen community wishes to provide feedback on this NISTIR draft, I suggest compiling a single document, including:
I hope so: we may as well use the relevant section in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZfZ1SJRauLrISiTLXzM0DPxQL8beNkAQS5MwLLNtRKc/edi to collate the feedback
But I can create a separate doc
Let’s discuss in the meeting
Regards
Lars

From: Rich Persaud <persaur@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 9 October 2018 at 21:33
To: Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com>
Cc: Andrew Cooper <Andrew.Cooper3@citrix.com>, Tamas K Lengyel <tamas.k.lengyel@gmail.com>, xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org>, "committers@xenproject.org" <committers@xenproject.org>, "intel-xen@intel.com" <intel-xen@intel.com>, "daniel.kiper@oracle.com" <daniel.kiper@oracle.com>, Roger Monne <roger.pau@citrix.com>, "christopher.w.clark@gmail.com" <christopher.w.clark@gmail.com>, Brian Woods <brian.woods@amd.com>, "jgross@suse.com" <jgross@suse.com>, Paul Durrant <Paul.Durrant@citrix.com>, John Ji <john.ji@intel.com>, "jnataraj@amd.com" <jnataraj@amd.com>, "Edgar E. Iglesias" <edgar.iglesias@xilinx.com>, "davorin.mista@aggios.com" <davorin.mista@aggios.com>, "robin.randhawa@arm.com" <robin.randhawa@arm.com>, Artem Mygaiev <Artem_Mygaiev@epam.com>, "Matt.Spencer@arm.com" <Matt.Spencer@arm.com>, "anastassios.nanos@onapp.com" <anastassios.nanos@onapp.com>, Julien Grall <julien.grall@arm.com>, "Stewart.Hildebrand@dornerworks.com" <Stewart.Hildebrand@dornerworks.com>, "vfachin@de.adit-jv.com" <vfachin@de.adit-jv.com>, Volodymyr Babchuk <volodymyr_babchuk@epam.com>, "mirela.simonovic@aggios.com" <mirela.simonovic@aggios.com>, "Jarvis.Roach@dornerworks.com" <Jarvis.Roach@dornerworks.com>, Stefano Stabellini <sstabellini@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: x86 Community Call: Wed Oct 10, 14:00 - 15:00 UTC - Call for agenda items

Lars,

This NIST document ("A Methodology for Determining Forensic Data Requirements for Detecting Hypervisor Attacks" [1]) appears to be focused on the application of LibVMI in some contexts.  It is a NIST Interagency or Internal Report (NISTIR) document with a narrower scope than other NIST publications, e.g. Special Publications (SP).  NISTIR documents are:

https://www.nist.gov/nist-research-library/nist-series-publications
"... Interim or final reports on work performed by NIST for outside sponsors (both government and non-government).  May also report results of NIST projects of transitory or limited interest, including those that will be published subsequently in more comprehensive form."


If the Xen community wishes to provide feedback on this NISTIR draft, I suggest compiling a single document, including:

 - any inaccuracies + supporting references
 - vulnerability scope boundaries, including Xen hypervisor, Linux kernel affecting KVM, KVM module for Linux kernel, QEMU and hypervisor toolstack(s)
 - additional sample attack(s) and evidence coverage for forensic analysis
 - additional references on hypervisor security / vulnerability analysis
 - missing perspectives (e.g. impact of features selected via KCONFIG, disaggregation)
 - other feedback

If a single list can be compiled, each item can be numbered and Xen community viewpoints can be aggregated for possible consensus in unified feedback, or individuals could submit their feedback separately.

Rich

[1] https://csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Publications/nistir/8221/draft/documents/nistir-8221-draft.pdf

On Oct 9, 2018, at 14:20, Lars Kurth <lars.kurth@citrix.com<mailto:lars.kurth@citrix.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
I added a NIST Security Paper to the agenda which is currently under review and is full of inaccuracies and could potentially become very problematic to the project and vendors using Xen if officially published by NIST without being corrected (it needs responses by the end of week). I will be struggling to do this alone and would like to enlist help, in particular from people with a security background. That would also be significantly more powerful than me providing the feedback.
Regards
Kars

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