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From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Neil Horman' <nhorman@tuxdriver.com>,
	Daniel Borkmann <dborkman@redhat.com>
Cc: "davem@davemloft.net" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"geirola@gmail.com" <geirola@gmail.com>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org" <linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH net-next 0/5] SCTP updates
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 11:12:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <063D6719AE5E284EB5DD2968C1650D6D1726F0E9@AcuExch.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140709104958.GA3784@hmsreliant.think-freely.org>

From: Neil Horman
> > In how many years do you plan a removal ... I think we're stuck with uapi
> > basically forever as we don't want to break old binaries, no? ;/
> >
> I thought we could remove things on a schedule if we followed the deprecation
> process, but that may just be for sysfs.  Regardless, it would still be nice to
> inform people they are using an older api.

The issue here is that it is an application API, not a system programming one.
I'd guess that most sysfs stuff is only used by programs that are released
as part of a Linux distribution - and thus code that is likely to be
release with a matching kernel.

These sccp structures are much more likely to be used by 'proper' 3rd party
applications, targeted at multiple kernel versions - possibly in binary form.
We compile applications on the oldest linux version we think our customers
are using - otherwise we'd have to release multiple copies.

So I don't think they can be deprecated (with warnings from the kernel) for
a long time, perhaps 5 or 10 years!

The first stage would be (somehow) to generate warnings when applications
are compiled. Only when that has been in place for some time would it
make sense to generate kernel warnings.

		David

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Neil Horman' <nhorman@tuxdriver.com>,
	Daniel Borkmann <dborkman@redhat.com>
Cc: "davem@davemloft.net" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"geirola@gmail.com" <geirola@gmail.com>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org" <linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH net-next 0/5] SCTP updates
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 11:12:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <063D6719AE5E284EB5DD2968C1650D6D1726F0E9@AcuExch.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140709104958.GA3784@hmsreliant.think-freely.org>

From: Neil Horman
> > In how many years do you plan a removal ... I think we're stuck with uapi
> > basically forever as we don't want to break old binaries, no? ;/
> >
> I thought we could remove things on a schedule if we followed the deprecation
> process, but that may just be for sysfs.  Regardless, it would still be nice to
> inform people they are using an older api.

The issue here is that it is an application API, not a system programming one.
I'd guess that most sysfs stuff is only used by programs that are released
as part of a Linux distribution - and thus code that is likely to be
release with a matching kernel.

These sccp structures are much more likely to be used by 'proper' 3rd party
applications, targeted at multiple kernel versions - possibly in binary form.
We compile applications on the oldest linux version we think our customers
are using - otherwise we'd have to release multiple copies.

So I don't think they can be deprecated (with warnings from the kernel) for
a long time, perhaps 5 or 10 years!

The first stage would be (somehow) to generate warnings when applications
are compiled. Only when that has been in place for some time would it
make sense to generate kernel warnings.

		David




  reply	other threads:[~2014-07-09 11:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-07-04 21:05 [PATCH net-next 0/5] SCTP updates Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-04 21:05 ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-04 21:05 ` [PATCH net-next 1/5] net: sctp: fix information leaks in ulpevent layer Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-04 21:05   ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-04 21:05 ` [PATCH net-next 5/5] net: sctp: implement rfc6458, 8.1.31. SCTP_DEFAULT_SNDINFO support Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-04 21:05   ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-08 11:14 ` [PATCH net-next 0/5] SCTP updates Neil Horman
2014-07-08 11:14   ` Neil Horman
2014-07-08 14:05   ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-08 14:05     ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-08 14:41     ` Neil Horman
2014-07-08 14:41       ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09  9:57       ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09  9:57         ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09 10:49         ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 10:49           ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 11:12           ` David Laight [this message]
2014-07-09 11:12             ` David Laight
2014-07-09 13:28           ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09 13:28             ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09 15:13             ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 15:13               ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 15:25               ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09 15:25                 ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09 15:41                 ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 15:41                   ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 15:36               ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-09 15:36                 ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-09 15:44                 ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 15:44                   ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 16:02                   ` David Laight
2014-07-09 16:02                     ` David Laight
2014-07-09 16:12                     ` Michael Tuexen
2014-07-09 16:12                       ` Michael Tuexen
2014-07-09 16:30                       ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-09 16:30                         ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-09 16:32                   ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-09 16:32                     ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-09 18:35                     ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 18:35                       ` Neil Horman
2014-07-10  9:02                       ` David Laight
2014-07-10  9:37                         ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-10  9:37                           ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-10 10:57                           ` Neil Horman
2014-07-10 10:57                             ` Neil Horman
2014-07-10 19:04                           ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-10 19:04                             ` Vlad Yasevich
2014-07-10 10:55                         ` Neil Horman
2014-07-10 10:55                           ` Neil Horman
2014-07-09 16:10                 ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09 16:10                   ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-08 21:40 ` David Miller
2014-07-08 21:40   ` David Miller
2014-07-09  7:59   ` Daniel Borkmann
2014-07-09  7:59     ` Daniel Borkmann
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-12-20  1:47 [PATCH net-next 0/5]: " Vlad Yasevich
2008-12-20  1:47 ` Vlad Yasevich
2008-12-20  1:47 ` Vlad Yasevich
2008-12-20  1:47   ` Vlad Yasevich

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