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From: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>
To: Con Kolivas <kernel@kolivas.org>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"K.R. Foley" <kr@cybsft.com>, Rui Nuno Capela <rncbc@rncbc.org>,
	Florian Schmidt <mista.tapas@gmx.net>,
	Mark_H_Johnson@raytheon.com,
	Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano <nando@ccrma.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Preemption model (was Re: voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 01:50:00 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1097300995.1442.156.camel@krustophenia.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <41677862.2020806@kolivas.org>

On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 01:34, Con Kolivas wrote:
> Lee Revell wrote:
> >>>>>With VP and PREEMPT in general, does the scheduler always run the
> >>>>>highest priority process, or do we only preempt if a SCHED_FIFO process
> >>>>>is runnable?
> >>>>
> >>>>Always the highest priority runnable.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hmm, interesting.  Would there be any advantage to a mode where only
> >>>SCHED_FIFO tasks can preempt?  This seems like a much lighter way to
> >>>solve the realtime problem.
> >>
> >>No, the linux scheduler has always been preemptible. PREEMPT and VP just 
> >>allows it to preempt kernel code paths as well. It could be modified to 
> >>do such a thing but apart from real time applications it would perform 
> >>very badly overall.
> > 
> > 
> > I am talking about a mode where we only allow a SCHED_FIFO process to
> > preempt a kernel code path.  In every other case it works like !PREEMPT.
> > 
> > This is apparently how kernel preemption worked on SVR4.
> 
> Yes it could. If you ask nicely, Ingo might even throw in yet another 
> config option in the kernel. It gets messy if multiple people start 
> hacking on the same thing when it's under heavy development.

Oh, I was not going to post a patch, I don't know the code nearly well
enough at this point :-).  But it looks pretty straightforward.

This also addresses what I think was Linus' main objection to PREEMPT,
which IIRC was (paraphrasing) that maybe if the scheduler had been
smarter we would not be having to preempt all the time.  This argument
is perfectly valid except for a SCHED_FIFO task which by definition will
always know better than the scheduler does when it needs to run.

Lee  


  reply	other threads:[~2004-10-09  6:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 223+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20040903120957.00665413@mango.fruits.de>
     [not found] ` <20040903100946.GA22819@elte.hu>
     [not found]   ` <20040903123139.565c806b@mango.fruits.de>
2004-09-03 10:32     ` lockup with voluntary preempt R0 and VP, KP, etc, disabled Ingo Molnar
2004-09-03 11:59       ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 11:55         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-03 13:01           ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 12:04         ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 12:08           ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 18:28             ` Lee Revell
2004-09-03 18:54               ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 18:52                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-03 19:06                 ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-04 19:51 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk4-R4 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 14:02   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R5 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 16:07     ` Matt Heler
2004-09-05 18:16     ` Lee Revell
2004-09-05 19:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 21:03         ` Lee Revell
2004-09-06  6:30           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-06  7:44             ` Lee Revell
2004-09-07  3:17               ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-06 11:06     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R6 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-06 11:48       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2004-09-06 12:25         ` Alexander Nyberg
2004-09-06 12:29           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07  9:26             ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R7 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07 11:57               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R8 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07 14:50                 ` Alexander Nyberg
2004-09-07 15:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07 15:29                     ` Alexander Nyberg
2004-09-07 19:56                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2004-09-07 22:59                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-08  8:20                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R9 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-08  9:46                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2004-09-08  9:56                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-08 22:37                     ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09  6:17                       ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-S0 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 19:30                         ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09 20:23                           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-19 12:26                         ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S1 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-19 17:05                           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2004-09-20 17:14                           ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-20 19:48                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21  2:25                               ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-20 19:47                           ` Magnus Määttä
2004-09-21  2:07                           ` BKL backtraces - was: " K.R. Foley
2004-09-21  7:18                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21  7:44                               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S2 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21 18:51                                 ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 10:33                                 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S3 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-22 15:07                                   ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 17:16                                     ` Lee Revell
2004-09-22 17:40                                       ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 19:45                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-22 17:09                                   ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 19:08                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-09-23  1:13                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-09-23 12:28                                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S4 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 12:57                                     ` Norberto Bensa
2004-09-23 13:01                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 13:07                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 13:09                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 16:46                                           ` Norberto Bensa
2004-09-23 17:13                                             ` Norberto Bensa
2004-09-23 18:20                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 13:35                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-23 13:40                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 16:23                                         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-23 18:07                                           ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24 12:43                                             ` OHCI_QUIRK_INITRESET (was: 2.6.9-rc2-mm2 ohci_hcd doesn't work) Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24 12:55                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24 14:00                                                 ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24 16:16                                                   ` Bjorn Helgaas
2004-09-25 23:37                                                     ` David Brownell
2004-09-26 13:09                                                       ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-27 15:11                                                       ` Bjorn Helgaas
2004-09-23 21:12                                     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm3-S5 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24  0:32                                       ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24  2:22                                       ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-24  3:30                                         ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-24  7:40                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24 11:05                                             ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-24 11:45                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24  7:44                                       ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm3-S6 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-28  0:05                                         ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm4-S7 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-28 20:17                                           ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-28 21:03                                             ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-28 21:46                                               ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-28 22:01                                                 ` Matt Heler
2004-09-29 17:43                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-29 18:40                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-29 20:30                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-29 20:34                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-02  3:02                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-02  9:50                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-03  2:01                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  2:14                                             ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  2:19                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03 20:08                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-03  6:37                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  6:50                                             ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  7:06                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03 19:57                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-04  0:53                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-04 10:17                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-04 17:20                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03 20:05                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-03 21:09                                           ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm1-S8 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-04 21:53                                             ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm1-S9 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05  0:31                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-05  0:56                                                 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  0:45                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-05  0:38                                               ` Andrew Rodland
2004-10-05  1:19                                               ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05  5:32                                                 ` Peter Williams
2004-10-05  6:38                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05  1:42                                               ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  2:05                                                 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  3:09                                                 ` Andrew Rodland
2004-10-05 10:24                                                   ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  7:02                                               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm2-T0 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 11:11                                                 ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 11:17                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 12:07                                                     ` Hugh Dickins
2004-10-05 11:12                                                 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05 11:03                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 11:14                                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 11:16                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 13:47                                               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm2-T1 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 16:37                                                 ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 18:42                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 19:38                                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 19:44                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 20:01                                                         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-06  0:12                                                         ` Lee Revell
2004-10-06  7:51                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-07 10:52                                                 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Ingo Molnar
     [not found]                                                   ` <20041007134116.3e53b239.h.mth@web.de>
2004-10-07 11:44                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-07 12:08                                                       ` Hanno Meyer-Thurow
2004-10-07 12:16                                                   ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-07 13:53                                                   ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-07 14:13                                                     ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-07 23:26                                                     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-08  5:36                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08  6:49                                                         ` Con Kolivas
2004-10-08 18:05                                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08  7:06                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08  7:36                                                           ` Peter Williams
2004-10-08 17:27                                                             ` Lee Revell
2004-10-07 17:55                                                   ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-07 20:29                                                     ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-07 21:55                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08  1:41                                                         ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-08  7:02                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08 14:03                                                             ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-08 14:28                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08 21:14                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08 23:11                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-09  4:16                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-09  4:57                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:09                                                     ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-09  5:21                                                       ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:23                                                         ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-09  5:31                                                           ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:34                                                             ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-09  5:50                                                               ` Lee Revell [this message]
2004-10-09  5:53                                                                 ` Preemption model (was Re: voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3) Con Kolivas
2004-10-09 10:46                                                         ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-09 13:21                                                         ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 K.R. Foley
2004-10-09 18:16                                                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Florian Schmidt
2004-10-11 14:29                                                   ` [patch] CONFIG_PREEMPT_REALTIME, 'Fully Preemptible Kernel', VP-2.6.9-rc4-mm1-T4 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-11 17:48                                                     ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-11 21:22                                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-11 21:37                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-12  4:30                                                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Lee Revell
2004-10-12  9:17                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-13 16:52                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-13 16:48                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08 11:16                                                 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm2-T1 William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-22 17:30                                 ` Oops in __posix_lock_file was:Re: [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S2 K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 19:43                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21 18:24                           ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S1 K.R. Foley
2004-09-21 19:21                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21 19:37                               ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-08  6:56       ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R6 Lee Revell
2004-09-09 19:29         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 19:33           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09 20:43             ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09 20:51               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 21:03               ` Scott Wood
2004-09-09 20:05           ` Andrew Morton
2004-09-09 20:09             ` Alan Cox
2004-09-09 21:28               ` Andrew Morton
2004-09-09 22:45             ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-09 22:11               ` Alan Cox
2004-09-09 23:20                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-10 13:28             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-10 14:28               ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-09-10 16:45                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-10 22:54               ` Lee Revell
2004-09-11  0:21                 ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-09 20:13           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-22  0:17           ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-07 22:55     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R5 Lee Revell
2004-09-07 23:13       ` Lee Revell
2004-09-07 23:58         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-08  8:23           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-08  8:31             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 11:09               ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-15  1:16                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-15  9:29                   ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-15  9:38                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-15  9:53                       ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-15 10:00                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-15 10:35                           ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-25 19:26               ` Lee Revell
2004-09-25 20:38                 ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-25 20:40                   ` Lee Revell
2004-09-25 20:50                     ` Duncan Sands
2004-09-25 23:54                       ` Lee Revell
2004-09-26 13:42                         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-08  8:46             ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-08  8:52               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 14:49   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk4-R4 Florian Schmidt
2004-09-05 14:53     ` K.R. Foley

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