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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>
Cc: Con Kolivas <kernel@kolivas.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"K.R. Foley" <kr@cybsft.com>, Rui Nuno Capela <rncbc@rncbc.org>,
	Florian Schmidt <mista.tapas@gmx.net>,
	Mark_H_Johnson@raytheon.com,
	Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano <nando@ccrma.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:46:00 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20041009104600.GB19062@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1097299260.1442.142.camel@krustophenia.net>


* Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com> wrote:

> > > With VP and PREEMPT in general, does the scheduler always run the
> > > highest priority process, or do we only preempt if a SCHED_FIFO process
> > > is runnable?
> > 
> > Always the highest priority runnable.
> > 
> 
> Hmm, interesting.  Would there be any advantage to a mode where only
> SCHED_FIFO tasks can preempt?  This seems like a much lighter way to
> solve the realtime problem.

it could be done, but i dont think we should do it. It makes RT
scheduling much more of a special-case. Right now RT scheduling is 99%
like normal scheduling - with the difference that RT priorities are
"higher" than the normal priorities and that each RT priority level is
"exclusive": the scheduler will let such tasks run until they want,
without applying fairness policies.

by making RT tasks more of a special case we'd destabilize the whole
thing: there would be kernel preemptability bugs that only RT tasks
would hit - resulting in a steady deterioration of PREEMPT support in
the kernel. (the ratio of RT tasks is perhaps 0.1% of all use, or less.) 
So applying _any_ RT-only technique besides the bare minimum is asking
for trouble in the long run.

furthermore, we had hard-to-trigger SMP bugs that the PREEMPT kernel
triggered much faster - resulting in an indirect stabilization of our
SMP code. If nothing else then this alone makes PREEMPT very useful.

	Ingo

  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-10-09 10:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 223+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20040903120957.00665413@mango.fruits.de>
     [not found] ` <20040903100946.GA22819@elte.hu>
     [not found]   ` <20040903123139.565c806b@mango.fruits.de>
2004-09-03 10:32     ` lockup with voluntary preempt R0 and VP, KP, etc, disabled Ingo Molnar
2004-09-03 11:59       ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 11:55         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-03 13:01           ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 12:04         ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 12:08           ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 18:28             ` Lee Revell
2004-09-03 18:54               ` Florian Schmidt
2004-09-03 18:52                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-03 19:06                 ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-04 19:51 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk4-R4 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 14:02   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R5 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 16:07     ` Matt Heler
2004-09-05 18:16     ` Lee Revell
2004-09-05 19:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 21:03         ` Lee Revell
2004-09-06  6:30           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-06  7:44             ` Lee Revell
2004-09-07  3:17               ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-06 11:06     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R6 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-06 11:48       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2004-09-06 12:25         ` Alexander Nyberg
2004-09-06 12:29           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07  9:26             ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R7 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07 11:57               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R8 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07 14:50                 ` Alexander Nyberg
2004-09-07 15:04                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-07 15:29                     ` Alexander Nyberg
2004-09-07 19:56                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2004-09-07 22:59                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-08  8:20                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R9 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-08  9:46                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2004-09-08  9:56                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-08 22:37                     ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09  6:17                       ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-S0 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 19:30                         ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09 20:23                           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-19 12:26                         ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S1 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-19 17:05                           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2004-09-20 17:14                           ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-20 19:48                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21  2:25                               ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-20 19:47                           ` Magnus Määttä
2004-09-21  2:07                           ` BKL backtraces - was: " K.R. Foley
2004-09-21  7:18                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21  7:44                               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S2 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21 18:51                                 ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 10:33                                 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S3 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-22 15:07                                   ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 17:16                                     ` Lee Revell
2004-09-22 17:40                                       ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 19:45                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-22 17:09                                   ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 19:08                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-09-23  1:13                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-09-23 12:28                                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S4 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 12:57                                     ` Norberto Bensa
2004-09-23 13:01                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 13:07                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 13:09                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 16:46                                           ` Norberto Bensa
2004-09-23 17:13                                             ` Norberto Bensa
2004-09-23 18:20                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 13:35                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-23 13:40                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-23 16:23                                         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-23 18:07                                           ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24 12:43                                             ` OHCI_QUIRK_INITRESET (was: 2.6.9-rc2-mm2 ohci_hcd doesn't work) Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24 12:55                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24 14:00                                                 ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24 16:16                                                   ` Bjorn Helgaas
2004-09-25 23:37                                                     ` David Brownell
2004-09-26 13:09                                                       ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-27 15:11                                                       ` Bjorn Helgaas
2004-09-23 21:12                                     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm3-S5 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24  0:32                                       ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-24  2:22                                       ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-24  3:30                                         ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-24  7:40                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24 11:05                                             ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-24 11:45                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-24  7:44                                       ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm3-S6 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-28  0:05                                         ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm4-S7 Ingo Molnar
2004-09-28 20:17                                           ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-28 21:03                                             ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-28 21:46                                               ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-28 22:01                                                 ` Matt Heler
2004-09-29 17:43                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-29 18:40                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-29 20:30                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-29 20:34                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-02  3:02                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-02  9:50                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-03  2:01                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  2:14                                             ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  2:19                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03 20:08                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-03  6:37                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  6:50                                             ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03  7:06                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03 19:57                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-04  0:53                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-04 10:17                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-04 17:20                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-03 20:05                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-03 21:09                                           ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm1-S8 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-04 21:53                                             ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm1-S9 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05  0:31                                               ` Lee Revell
2004-10-05  0:56                                                 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  0:45                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-05  0:38                                               ` Andrew Rodland
2004-10-05  1:19                                               ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05  5:32                                                 ` Peter Williams
2004-10-05  6:38                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05  1:42                                               ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  2:05                                                 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  3:09                                                 ` Andrew Rodland
2004-10-05 10:24                                                   ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05  7:02                                               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm2-T0 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 11:11                                                 ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 11:17                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 12:07                                                     ` Hugh Dickins
2004-10-05 11:12                                                 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-05 11:03                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 11:14                                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 11:16                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 13:47                                               ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm2-T1 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 16:37                                                 ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 18:42                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 19:38                                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-05 19:44                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-05 20:01                                                         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-06  0:12                                                         ` Lee Revell
2004-10-06  7:51                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-07 10:52                                                 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Ingo Molnar
     [not found]                                                   ` <20041007134116.3e53b239.h.mth@web.de>
2004-10-07 11:44                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-07 12:08                                                       ` Hanno Meyer-Thurow
2004-10-07 12:16                                                   ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-07 13:53                                                   ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-07 14:13                                                     ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-07 23:26                                                     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-08  5:36                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08  6:49                                                         ` Con Kolivas
2004-10-08 18:05                                                           ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08  7:06                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08  7:36                                                           ` Peter Williams
2004-10-08 17:27                                                             ` Lee Revell
2004-10-07 17:55                                                   ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-07 20:29                                                     ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-07 21:55                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08  1:41                                                         ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-08  7:02                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08 14:03                                                             ` K.R. Foley
2004-10-08 14:28                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-08 21:14                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08 23:11                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-09  4:16                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-09  4:57                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:09                                                     ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-09  5:21                                                       ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:23                                                         ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-09  5:31                                                           ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:34                                                             ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Con Kolivas
2004-10-09  5:50                                                               ` Preemption model (was Re: voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3) Lee Revell
2004-10-09  5:53                                                                 ` Con Kolivas
2004-10-09 10:46                                                         ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2004-10-09 13:21                                                         ` voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 K.R. Foley
2004-10-09 18:16                                                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Florian Schmidt
2004-10-11 14:29                                                   ` [patch] CONFIG_PREEMPT_REALTIME, 'Fully Preemptible Kernel', VP-2.6.9-rc4-mm1-T4 Ingo Molnar
2004-10-11 17:48                                                     ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-11 21:22                                                     ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-10-11 21:37                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-12  4:30                                                   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm3-T3 Lee Revell
2004-10-12  9:17                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-10-13 16:52                                                       ` Lee Revell
2004-10-13 16:48                                                   ` Lee Revell
2004-10-08 11:16                                                 ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc3-mm2-T1 William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-22 17:30                                 ` Oops in __posix_lock_file was:Re: [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S2 K.R. Foley
2004-09-22 19:43                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21 18:24                           ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc2-mm1-S1 K.R. Foley
2004-09-21 19:21                             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-21 19:37                               ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-08  6:56       ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R6 Lee Revell
2004-09-09 19:29         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 19:33           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09 20:43             ` Lee Revell
2004-09-09 20:51               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 21:03               ` Scott Wood
2004-09-09 20:05           ` Andrew Morton
2004-09-09 20:09             ` Alan Cox
2004-09-09 21:28               ` Andrew Morton
2004-09-09 22:45             ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-09 22:11               ` Alan Cox
2004-09-09 23:20                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-10 13:28             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-10 14:28               ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-09-10 16:45                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-10 22:54               ` Lee Revell
2004-09-11  0:21                 ` K.R. Foley
2004-09-09 20:13           ` Lee Revell
2004-09-22  0:17           ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-09-07 22:55     ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk12-R5 Lee Revell
2004-09-07 23:13       ` Lee Revell
2004-09-07 23:58         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-08  8:23           ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-08  8:31             ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-09 11:09               ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-15  1:16                 ` Lee Revell
2004-09-15  9:29                   ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-15  9:38                     ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-15  9:53                       ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-15 10:00                         ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-15 10:35                           ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-25 19:26               ` Lee Revell
2004-09-25 20:38                 ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-25 20:40                   ` Lee Revell
2004-09-25 20:50                     ` Duncan Sands
2004-09-25 23:54                       ` Lee Revell
2004-09-26 13:42                         ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-08  8:46             ` Rui Nuno Capela
2004-09-08  8:52               ` Ingo Molnar
2004-09-05 14:49   ` [patch] voluntary-preempt-2.6.9-rc1-bk4-R4 Florian Schmidt
2004-09-05 14:53     ` K.R. Foley

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