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From: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Suresh Siddha <suresh.b.siddha@intel.com>,
	Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Lai Jiangshan <laijs@cn.fujitsu.com>,
	Dan Smith <danms@us.ibm.com>,
	Bharata B Rao <bharata.rao@gmail.com>,
	Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 14/26] sched, numa: Numa balancer
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:23:49 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1341836629.3462.60.camel@twins> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4FF87F5F.30106@redhat.com>

On Sat, 2012-07-07 at 14:26 -0400, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> You asked how and why Andrea's algorithm converges.
> After looking at both patch sets for a while, and asking
> for clarification, I think I can see how his code converges.

Do share.. what does it balance on and where does it converge to?

> It is not yet clear to me how and why your code converges.

I don't think it does.. but since the scheduler interaction is fairly
weak it doesn't matter too much from that pov.

> I see some dual bin packing (CPU & memory) heuristics, but
> it is not at all clear to me how they interact, especially
> when workloads are going active and idle on a regular basis.
> 
Right, this is the bit I wanted discussion on most.. it is not at all
clear to me what one would want it to do. Given sufficient memory you'd
want it to slowly follow the cpu load. However on memory pressure you
can't do that.

Spreading memory evenly across nodes doesn't make much sense if the
compute time and capacity isn't matched either.

Also a pond will never settle if you keep throwing rocks in, you need
semi-stable operation conditions for anything to make sense. So the only
thing to consider for the wildly dynamic case is not going bananas along
with it.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Suresh Siddha <suresh.b.siddha@intel.com>,
	Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Lai Jiangshan <laijs@cn.fujitsu.com>,
	Dan Smith <danms@us.ibm.com>,
	Bharata B Rao <bharata.rao@gmail.com>,
	Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 14/26] sched, numa: Numa balancer
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 14:23:49 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1341836629.3462.60.camel@twins> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4FF87F5F.30106@redhat.com>

On Sat, 2012-07-07 at 14:26 -0400, Rik van Riel wrote:
> 
> You asked how and why Andrea's algorithm converges.
> After looking at both patch sets for a while, and asking
> for clarification, I think I can see how his code converges.

Do share.. what does it balance on and where does it converge to?

> It is not yet clear to me how and why your code converges.

I don't think it does.. but since the scheduler interaction is fairly
weak it doesn't matter too much from that pov.

> I see some dual bin packing (CPU & memory) heuristics, but
> it is not at all clear to me how they interact, especially
> when workloads are going active and idle on a regular basis.
> 
Right, this is the bit I wanted discussion on most.. it is not at all
clear to me what one would want it to do. Given sufficient memory you'd
want it to slowly follow the cpu load. However on memory pressure you
can't do that.

Spreading memory evenly across nodes doesn't make much sense if the
compute time and capacity isn't matched either.

Also a pond will never settle if you keep throwing rocks in, you need
semi-stable operation conditions for anything to make sense. So the only
thing to consider for the wildly dynamic case is not going bananas along
with it.

--
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2012-07-09 12:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 304+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-03-16 14:40 [RFC][PATCH 00/26] sched/numa Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 01/26] mm, mpol: Re-implement check_*_range() using walk_page_range() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 02/26] mm, mpol: Remove NUMA_INTERLEAVE_HIT Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-06 10:32   ` Johannes Weiner
2012-07-06 10:32     ` Johannes Weiner
2012-07-06 13:46     ` [tip:sched/core] mm: Fix vmstat names-values off-by-one tip-bot for Johannes Weiner
2012-07-06 14:48     ` [RFC][PATCH 02/26] mm, mpol: Remove NUMA_INTERLEAVE_HIT Minchan Kim
2012-07-06 14:48       ` Minchan Kim
2012-07-06 15:02       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-06 15:02         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-06 14:54   ` Kyungmin Park
2012-07-06 14:54     ` Kyungmin Park
2012-07-06 15:00     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-06 15:00       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 03/26] mm, mpol: add MPOL_MF_LAZY Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-23 11:50   ` Mel Gorman
2012-03-23 11:50     ` Mel Gorman
2012-07-06 16:38     ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-06 16:38       ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-06 20:04       ` Lee Schermerhorn
2012-07-06 20:04         ` Lee Schermerhorn
2012-07-06 20:27         ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-06 20:27           ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 11:48       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 11:48         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 04/26] mm, mpol: add MPOL_MF_NOOP Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-06 18:40   ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-06 18:40     ` Rik van Riel
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 05/26] mm, mpol: Check for misplaced page Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 06/26] mm: Migrate " Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-04-03 17:32   ` Dan Smith
2012-04-03 17:32     ` Dan Smith
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 07/26] mm: Handle misplaced anon pages Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 08/26] mm, mpol: Simplify do_mbind() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 09/26] sched, mm: Introduce tsk_home_node() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 10/26] mm, mpol: Make mempolicy home-node aware Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 18:34   ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-16 18:34     ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-16 21:12     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 21:12       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:53       ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 13:53         ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 14:05         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:05           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 15:16           ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 15:16             ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 15:23             ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 15:23               ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 15:31               ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 15:31                 ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 17:09                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 17:09                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 17:28                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 17:28                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 19:06                   ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 19:06                     ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 20:28                   ` Lee Schermerhorn
2012-03-19 20:28                     ` Lee Schermerhorn
2012-03-19 21:21                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 21:21                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 11/26] mm, mpol: Lazy migrate a process/vma Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 12/26] sched, mm: sched_{fork,exec} node assignment Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-06-15 18:16   ` Tony Luck
2012-06-15 18:16     ` Tony Luck
2012-06-20 19:12     ` [PATCH] sched: Fix build problems when CONFIG_NUMA=y and CONFIG_SMP=n Luck, Tony
2012-06-20 19:12       ` Luck, Tony
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 13/26] sched: Implement home-node awareness Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 14/26] sched, numa: Numa balancer Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-07 18:26   ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-07 18:26     ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 12:05     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 12:05       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 12:23     ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2012-07-09 12:23       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 12:40       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 12:40         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 14:50         ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 14:50           ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-08 18:35   ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-08 18:35     ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 12:25     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 12:25       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 14:54       ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 14:54         ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-12 22:02   ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-12 22:02     ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-13 14:45     ` Don Morris
2012-07-13 14:45       ` Don Morris
2012-07-14 16:20       ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-14 16:20         ` Rik van Riel
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 15/26] sched, numa: Implement hotplug hooks Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:16   ` Srivatsa S. Bhat
2012-03-19 12:16     ` Srivatsa S. Bhat
2012-03-19 12:19     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:19       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:27       ` Srivatsa S. Bhat
2012-03-19 12:27         ` Srivatsa S. Bhat
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 16/26] sched, numa: Abstract the numa_entity Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 17/26] srcu: revert1 Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 18/26] srcu: revert2 Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 19/26] srcu: Implement call_srcu() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 20/26] mm, mpol: Introduce vma_dup_policy() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 21/26] mm, mpol: Introduce vma_put_policy() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 22/26] mm, mpol: Split and explose some mempolicy functions Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 23/26] sched, numa: Introduce sys_numa_{t,m}bind() Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 24/26] mm, mpol: Implement numa_group RSS accounting Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 25/26] sched, numa: Only migrate long-running entities Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-08 18:34   ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-08 18:34     ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 12:26     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 12:26       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 14:53       ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 14:53         ` Rik van Riel
2012-07-09 14:55         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-07-09 14:55           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40 ` [RFC][PATCH 26/26] sched, numa: A few debug bits Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 14:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-16 18:25 ` [RFC] AutoNUMA alpha6 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-16 18:25   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 18:47   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 18:47     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 19:02     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 19:02       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-20 23:41   ` Dan Smith
2012-03-20 23:41     ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21  1:00     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21  1:00       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21  2:12     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21  2:12       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21  4:01       ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21  4:01         ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21 12:49         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 12:49           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 22:05           ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21 22:05             ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21 22:52             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 22:52               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 23:13               ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21 23:13                 ` Dan Smith
2012-03-21 23:41                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 23:41                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22  0:17               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22  0:17                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22 13:58                 ` Dan Smith
2012-03-22 13:58                   ` Dan Smith
2012-03-22 14:27                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22 18:49                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22 18:49                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22 18:56                       ` Dan Smith
2012-03-22 18:56                         ` Dan Smith
2012-03-22 19:11                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-22 19:11                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-23 14:15                         ` Andrew Theurer
2012-03-23 14:15                           ` Andrew Theurer
2012-03-23 16:01                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-23 16:01                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-25 13:30                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-25 13:30                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21  7:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-21  7:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-21 12:08         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 12:08           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21  7:53     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-21  7:53       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-21 12:17       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 12:17         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19  9:57 ` [RFC][PATCH 00/26] sched/numa Avi Kivity
2012-03-19  9:57   ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 11:12   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:12     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:30     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:30       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:39     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:39       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:42     ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 11:42       ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 11:59       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 11:59         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:07         ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 12:07           ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 12:09       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:09         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:16         ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 12:16           ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 20:03           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 20:03             ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-20 10:18             ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-20 10:18               ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-20 10:48               ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-20 10:48                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-20 10:52                 ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-20 10:52                   ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-20 11:07                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-20 11:07                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-20 11:48                     ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-20 11:48                       ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 12:20       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:20         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 12:24         ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 12:24           ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 15:44           ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 15:44             ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 13:40       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 13:40         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 20:06         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 20:06           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:04     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 13:04       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 13:26       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:26         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:57         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 13:57           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:06           ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 14:06             ` Avi Kivity
2012-03-19 14:30             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:30               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 18:42               ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 18:42                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-20 22:18                 ` Rik van Riel
2012-03-20 22:18                   ` Rik van Riel
2012-03-21 16:50                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-21 16:50                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-04-02 16:34                   ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 16:34                     ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 16:55                     ` Rik van Riel
2012-04-02 16:55                       ` Rik van Riel
2012-04-02 16:54                       ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 16:54                         ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 17:12                         ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 17:12                           ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 17:23                           ` Pekka Enberg
2012-04-02 17:23                             ` Pekka Enberg
2012-03-19 14:07           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:07             ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:34             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:34               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 18:41               ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 18:41                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 19:13           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 19:13             ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:07         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:07           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 19:05           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 19:05             ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:26       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:26         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:16         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:16           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 13:29       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:29         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:19         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:19           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 13:39       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 13:39         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-19 14:20         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 14:20           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-03-19 20:17           ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 20:17             ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 20:28             ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-19 20:28               ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-19 20:43               ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 20:43                 ` Christoph Lameter
2012-03-19 21:34                 ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-19 21:34                   ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-20  0:05               ` Linus Torvalds
2012-03-20  0:05                 ` Linus Torvalds
2012-03-20  7:31                 ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-20  7:31                   ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-21 22:53 ` Nish Aravamudan
2012-03-21 22:53   ` Nish Aravamudan
2012-03-22  9:45   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-22  9:45     ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-22 10:34     ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-22 10:34       ` Ingo Molnar
2012-03-24  1:41     ` Nish Aravamudan
2012-03-24  1:41       ` Nish Aravamudan
2012-03-26 11:42       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-03-26 11:42         ` Peter Zijlstra

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